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Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Euro...
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Talking Point
Following the "outrage" about the imagery of Hitler (ok it was Rik Mayall impersonating him) in an anti-euro advert is it right that celebrities should use their fame to promte a political cause.
Would you take more notice of Sir Bob (as an example) than IDS or the PM?
And were people right to be "outraged" that Hitler's image was used..?
Following the "outrage" about the imagery of Hitler (ok it was Rik Mayall impersonating him) in an anti-euro advert is it right that celebrities should use their fame to promte a political cause.
Would you take more notice of Sir Bob (as an example) than IDS or the PM?
And were people right to be "outraged" that Hitler's image was used..?
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Comments
ROFLMAO....This is Britain mate.....This advert is a work of genius....I think we both know what the outcome will be...We would both like to think that most people will see through the advert but we also both know that wont be the case....People will see the advert, see hitler and see the euro..They will associate hitler with the euro...
Maybe my faith in people is too low but I dont think so.
This advert will achieve exactly what the makers wanted it to.
And that is what makes a good advertisement...
Sure, it's a good advertisement. But is it good?
Fascinating stuff.
Don't know. Doubt it will show in Thailand.
Just that Balddog's comments struck me in comparison to an American ad that used to run and that won awards. It was an ad that showed Michael Jordan and Larry Bird playing a game of "Horse" as a contest. The prize was what the ad was all about, but most viewers couldn't remember the sponser, only the shots. It wasn't a good advertisement, even though it was popular, memorable and won an award.
I think they did things perfectly. What is everyone talking about? Question to the PM included...
A man who wanted a unified europe, with a single currency and with Germany as the leaders....hmm hardly connected are they.
Seriously though, how is it offensive?
because people will trust proven liars before celebrities, you mean?
I think that celebrity endorsement is a good approach, People will trust Sir Bob for a start...certainly more than they will trust the PM...
MoK I must say that the continuing hatred, obsession, distrust (and one suspects envy) of Germany by Britain is astonishing. That sixty years on this country has to keep dragging the bloody war issue, making references in national newspapers whenever the two countries play a football game, and endless other jibes everywhere is pathetic and immature. With this kind of mentality raging across the community it is obviously very easy for certain parties to make people believe the Germans are out to dominate Europe once more, and blah blah blah. Of course, to anyone else in Europe such talk is regarded as utter nonsense. In here though the islander mentality is alive and well and people live in their own little warped world where the evil Kraut is still out to get us.
If one doesn't want the Euro because of the economic implications that's fine. But this talk of the 4th Reich coming to us through the single currency is plainly absurd.
As for the usage of Hitler, well ask any Jewish person how they feel about having his image shoved up their faces for political reasons when they go to the cinema for a nice night out.
How do you believe they feel ?
Is it ? I think he may well of approved.
I don't see it is that offensive to Jews, it occurs to me people who disapprove of the 'no' campaign and therefore the advert are just announcing anything which may devalue it and are no better than those who made it. All I've heard so far from everyone is that it is offensive with very little explaination.
Did anyone suggest that a 4th Reich was likely then, or is this your interpretation of the advert?
Yes there is distrust of Germans, and the German state - and that's hardly surprising is it? Even 60 years later. However, I don't think that is the prime reason for distrust of the Euro - I think that is just an excuse used by the pro-Euro campaign to discredit the anti-Euro group. How better to discredit them that to suggest that they are bigots.
Note, not ONE person has put any argument against anything the advert says, instead they concentrate on a 3-second clip.
The reason for that being, those three seconds epitomise everything that is wrong with the anti-Euro argument. The Anti-Euro lobby uses antiquated nationalistic sentiment to get people to say no. The Pro-Euro lobby uses economic arguments that can be backed up with fact. It would be nice if the anti-Euro lobby could come up with something a bit more steadfast than simply "don't chose the Euro because it's all part of a Nazi plan for European domination". Wonderful, how about we all go live in the past.
Playing on people's misguided sentiments and general ignorance is something they ought to be ashamed of. The fact the advertisement works makes one wonder whether Britain should even be allowed to join the Euro. If you insist on being Europhobes, then perhaps you should be treated as such.
or possibly that it is an easy target.
I will be very surprised if we every get a true debate on this issue, because the pre campaign will always start with the "bigots" argument. It is easier to slur that to debate.
Like I said there has been no-other reference, no questioning of points raised other tha the label the advert as bigotted.
And low, you prove my point. When has this argument EVER been put forward?
Because it is pure unbridled Europhobia, which is bigotry. There are no reasons, other than nationalism-induced phobias, that have been put across. There are certainly no economic reasons against the Euro other than a risk factor which is negligble.
The Nazi argument has not been put forward, it has been implied, and that is all it requires. The anti-Euro lobby needs only to hint that such a sentiment exists within their ranks, and the vulturous media does the rest.
Fact of the matter is, it must come down to economic arguments. But it wont. It will come down to ignorant Europhobia borne of the past against sound economic arguments that the majority will make no effort to comprehend.
If you believe that financial independence is Europhobic...
If you believe that an unwillingness for greater political integration is based purely on bigotry...
and the majority of times it is mentioned or implied, is by the pro lobby as a weapon. As you yourself have. As you say, it hasn't been mentioned by the anti lobby.
In many cases I'd agree. People will vote on a perception of history, and there are elements who will reinforce them.
However, to suggest that this is purely an economic issue is simply wrong. There is a political aspect too and they cannot be divorced.
I haven't seen the commercial, so I can't comment on it. However, for anyone to claim that a common European currency has a negligible risk factor, or that there are no economic reasons to argue against merging the currencies of Germany, France, Italy and Britain weakens their arguments.
Are the Swiss taking part in this?
I didn't say there aren't any economic reasons, simply that they are not being presented. My personal view, having looked at the economic arguments in fairly serious detail in a thread here a while back, is that the Euro is a good bet.
No, the Swiss are neither a part of the EU nor the EEC. But how that is relevant to anything is beyond me, since I'm not Swiss, merely based here. I'm not British either. I'm Australian, have lived in Switzerland for 5 years, but part of the ex-pat cutlure. If you want to do a full cross examination of my bias, PM me at any point.
Actually, I asked if the Swiss were taking part for much more practical reasons. If the Euro was a favorable economic move over the long term, the Swiss would be interested. The fact that they are not taking part says a great deal about the risk factor being more than negligible.
A long tradition of Swiss neutrality isn't a factor then?
If Switzerland were a country normally internationally involved in the UN, the EU etc, than I'd accept that their abstention from the Euro said something about it (namely that it's a bad idea - what makes them right anyway though?). They're not. Switzerland is neutral, and doesn't join international organisations. It's simply how they choose to do things. Not joining the Euro is business as usual for them - it's not a damning indictment of the Euro.
Not joining? Possibly, even likely. Not showing interest in the Euro? That isn't the same thing.
The EU and Euro, however, is quite another thing. The Swiss happily deal in the Euro - I can pass life here quite happily carrying nothing but the new currency. But joining - Vox is right, it's to do with the perception of neutrality. Because it would require a referendum, you'd have to convince every Swiss (especially the more populous and conservative German-speaking cantons) that such an enterprise wouldn't affect that neutrality. Fact of that matter, as it stands, is that it would. And the Swiss aren't important enough for the EU to start making special terms and conditions whereby the Swiss could remain neutral etc.
So no, joining the EU and the Euro is just not going to happen, almost purely for nationalistic and historical sentiments, similar to the UK. But the Swiss, at least the city folk, realise the economic benefits of the Euro. If you could give them a way to join the Eurozone but not the EU, they'd jump at it, I'm sure.