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False rape

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Re: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/leanne-black-woman-who-made-2041145

Looking at that article and several other sources for it, there are a lot of people (rightly) condemning her for making it harder for genuine victims of rape to be taken seriously. However conspicuous by its absence is apparently any semblance of sympathy for the men whose lives she has ruined. This seems to happen a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I have no idea how devastating it can be for a victim of rape however is it really correct that the feelings of the falsely accused are seemingly pushed in to a distant second?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not great, but I - ever the optimist - try to look at the bright side. Recently there was a cab driver who was accused of sexual assault who had an outpouring of sympathy: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10160029/Cab-driver-falsely-accused-of-rape-saved-by-his-phone-app.html

    Ultimately whether we like it or not, if someone is accused of rape people take a dim view and don't really adhere to the 'innocent until proven guilty'. This is certainly not helped by the sorry state of affairs with securing rape convictions - even if someone is guilty, it does appear they have a slim chance of ending up behind bars, which means people start to assume regardless of outcome that people are guilty.

    But things are getting better across the board. Police are getting better at supporting rape victims, at putting together better cases for court, but also people are getting better at supporting the falsely accused. We are still at a horrible situation where thousands of people are hurt and have their lives turned upside down every year, but that's getting better.

    As an aside as I'm sure it will come up, from what I've read there is no definitive rate of false rape - different interpretations give different results. Here's a link that sums up fairly nicely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney_.282006.29

    I do think the problem with reporting in the media on false rape, as callous as it is to the victims of false accusations - is that it stops legitimate victims coming forward for fear they would also be assumed to be lying. Most police forces in the UK deal with rape cases sympathetically these days, with female liaison officers, and links to organisations such as rape crisis who can offer additional support. Even if the case can't proceed to court - that doesn't mean the police don't believe you - just that they don't have the physical evidence that is required to secure a conviction.

    I wonder if those accused should be given anonymity pending the results of trial?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    I wonder if those accused should be given anonymity pending the results of trial?

    There are clear pros and cons to this - a good example is Jimmy Saville. As a side note I am of course making the distinction between 'false rape' and 'not guilty'.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the best thing they could do imho is keep the identity of everyone involved a secret until a conviction has been secured. Even if you're not guilty, the accusation of any kind of sex offence can be devastating.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The thing is Jimmy Saville never even went to court, so it wouldn't have made any difference there. An accusation of rape will show up on an enhanced CRB so if anyone had made a claim, whether it was public or not, he would have probably had much greater difficulty working with children.

    With Jimmy Saville the problem was of being an influential individual. Nobody wanted the bother of trying to take him down, because he was famous and relatively powerful.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Stuart Hall then? Apparently he's facing new charges, similar to those that put him away.

    Then you have the likes of John Leslie. From all accounts an unpleasant person but not a rapist however his career has been pissed upon.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't know a huge deal about the Stuart Hall case I'm afraid, whats the tldr?

    For John Leslie I do think the public nature of the accusation was wrong, and his identity probably should have been protected. At the same time - and it's coming back to the sorry state of rape convictions - I can't help but wonder whether there's 'no smoke without fire' for a fairly wealthy and powerful person being found not guilty.

    My stance is fairly inconsistent as you can see.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's often similar in real rape cases, and probably a lot of other crimes and false reports too. Everyone's so busy condemning the person that was in the wrong that they often forget about what the victim is going through. I don't think it's anything new.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    the best thing they could do imho is keep the identity of everyone involved a secret until a conviction has been secured. Even if you're not guilty, the accusation of any kind of sex offence can be devastating.

    Up until charge, I agree. Beyond that, I really don't agree at all. Stuart Hall is an excellent example of it- more people only came forward when they saw he'd been charged, so they felt more confident that they'd be believed.

    Though in the early stages of an investigation there's only one place a journalist can get information about a high-profile person who's been arrested. See if you can guess where it is.

    The accusation can be devastating, but few of the most high-profile cases that get to court have really permanently destroyed someone's career. The closest you may get is Craig Charles, but even he's not doing too badly on Corrie these days.

    John Leslie is a more complicated one. He was never actually named by the person making the allegation, so nothing ever went to court, so he never had a way of clearing his name.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    John Leslie is a more complicated one. He was never actually named by the person making the allegation, so nothing ever went to court, so he never had a way of clearing his name.

    He had his day in court http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3112347.stm
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah, forgot about that because it wasn't related to the allegation in a certain autobiography. It was that allegation that sunk his career, really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the Ulrika thing knocked his career but that court case dealt the final blow. There were too many who were willing to believe he was the person named in the book and that he MUST have got off on a technicality in court.

    But back to the topic in hand - is it right that the feelings of rape victims (who of course deserve every sympathy and support) are seemingly given priority over victims of false rape allegations?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes I think so, considering the impact of the crimes in the crudest relative ways. I'd rather be accused falsely of raping someone than being raped my self.

    They're both bad though and victims of both should be supported.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    They're both bad though and victims of both should be supported.

    I agree with that part, but as for your first point I disagree that it should almost be to the detriment of the support for the other.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think either side get huge amounts of sympathy tbh. Look at how the victim of the football Chad Evans has been treated I'd say it was about balanced.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think the people who are victims of celebrities are ever going to be treated well tbh, the media do such a number on them and their backgrounds. Girl gets raped by footballer? lets dig up some pictures of her getting off with one the year before
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