Home Politics & Debate
At The Mix, we want to make our services as helpful as we can. To do this, we’d love to ask you a few questions about you, your visit to The Mix and its impact. It should take only about 5-10 minutes to complete. Take this survey and get a chance at winning a £200 Amazon voucher​.
Come and join our Support Circle, every Tuesday, 8 - 9:30pm! Sign up here

Police judged to have acted lawfully when dragging protestor from wheel chair

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1391655/Riot-police-tipped-disabled-protester-wheelchair-accidentally-hit-baton-acting-lawfully.html
Riot police who tipped disabled protester out of wheelchair and ‘accidentally’ hit him with baton were acting ‘lawfully’

Yes I know its a daily mail link, but the same story is elsewhere too. I might stir up some controversy here, but when I look at this picture in the article, I cant help but think that as much as you want to protest, being right in the thick of a dangerous situation like that, is both stupid and a bit reckless and I can understand why police officers would remove someone from a potentially threatening situation.

I'm not saying the police are right or wrong in this case, but it is another situation where "stories" about these protests have come out and being totally inflated out of proportion as people jump on the outrage bus about something without having actually been there and not thinking that there "may" be more to a story than meets the eye.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can understand why police officers would remove someone from a potentially threatening situation.

    Does that extend to throwing someone out of their wheelchair?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    He's happily involved, he's able to protest with the other protestors, he's able to be there right at the front. But then he cries foul when he gets treated the same as everyone else?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Does that extend to throwing someone out of their wheelchair?

    There is a difference between pulling someone from a wheel chair and throwing them from one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    He's happily involved, he's able to protest with the other protestors, he's able to be there right at the front. But then he cries foul when he gets treated the same as everyone else?

    Except he wasn't the treated the same as everyone else. Or was everyone thrown from their wheelchair?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Except he wasn't the treated the same as everyone else. Or was everyone thrown from their wheelchair?

    Thats the thing, the case said
    the investigation found that the actions of officers were justifiable and lawful given the volatile and dangerous situation occurring at the location and his removal from his wheelchair was also justifiable given the officers' perceived risk to Jody McIntyre.'

    Well what happens when the wheel chair gets knocked over by the angry crowd and the police get shit from the crowd for not ensuring the person in the wheelchair was safe?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Except he wasn't the treated the same as everyone else. Or was everyone thrown from their wheelchair?

    He was treated the same in that all the protestors there were manhandled or pushed/pulled/arrested in some way. The guy is a twat, he feels quite able and capable of getting involved, but as soon as he gets treated in any way he doesn't like he starts crying about it and starts spouting out how he was discriminated against.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Utter utter rubbish. Being pulled from your wheelchair is totally different from being pushed away. At least if you're pushed away and aren't a wheelchair user, you can get up and move on. You generally can't do that if you're a wheelchair user. Also, depending on exactly what his disability is, they could've done some serious damage to him, which could lead to to etheir his disabilities becoming worse or developing new injuries.

    If you're pushed from your wheelchair, you also have the added risk of having your possibly heavy wheelchair fall on top of you, the police could also damage the chair too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Utter utter rubbish. Being pulled from your wheelchair is totally different from being pushed away. At least if you're pushed away and aren't a wheelchair user, you can get up and move on. You generally can't do that if you're a wheelchair user. Also, depending on exactly what his disability is, they could've done some serious damage to him, which could lead to to etheir his disabilities becoming worse or developing new injuries.

    If you're pushed from your wheelchair, you also have the added risk of having your possibly heavy wheelchair fall on top of you, the police could also damage the chair too.

    All of which if were the case, could have happened in the hustle and bustle of an angry crowd without the intervention of the police.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    All of which if were the case, could have happened in the hustle and bustle of an angry crowd without the intervention of the police.

    But that would happen because of those protesters being dickheads who would cause harm to anybody, wheelchair user or not. So it's not the same.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So what happens if the police do nothing, you can imagine the headline "Police fail to stop man in wheelchair getting injured"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's always a by-product of press wanting to cause drama. But the police still have a duty to protect, and that duty doesn't involve pulling/pushing [whatever word you want to use to describe how it happened] someone from a wheelchair.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    That's always a by-product of press wanting to cause drama. But the police still have a duty to protect, and that duty doesn't involve pulling/pushing [whatever word you want to use to describe how it happened] someone from a wheelchair.

    So how would the police have used their duty of care to help this man? Attempted to wheel him off.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    That's always a by-product of press wanting to cause drama. But the police still have a duty to protect, and that duty doesn't involve pulling/pushing [whatever word you want to use to describe how it happened] someone from a wheelchair.

    Exactly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Watching this video here, you can clearly see the dangerous situation the guy was in. There were thousands rioting around him. Lucky those brave strong police men fought off the crowd and pulled him to safety!

    If a wheel chair user wishes to protest, then let them. If anybody has seen Jody speak, they'll know that he's a bright lad and knows the risks of the demonstrations in which he's involved. Demonstrating against anything will always carry a risk, from the police, other protesters, or increasingly, from the opposition.

    I know that there's an issue with him being an easy target, but I find allegations such as Ian Tomlinson and the student who a police officer tried to prevent from getting medical care, or the 15 year old girl in her school uniform who was attacked by a police officer and hit on the floor, to be just as disturbing.

    Does anybody remember the BBC interview of Jody Mcintyre? Where they tried to justify it by saying he was wheeling towards the officers and implied that owning a "revolutionary" blog somehow justifies the officer attacking him. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dealt with him more safely, even if that did involve later removing him from his chair, doing it in a rough manner isn't the care you give to anybody who isn't acting violently, that is the treatment those who are violent usually get, not the innocent. They could have handled it better, isn't their training to deal with situations like this?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Also, depending on exactly what his disability is, they could've done some serious damage to him, which could lead to to etheir his disabilities becoming worse or developing new injuries.

    Bollocks. If you've got a disability or injury that could get worse if you fall out/are removed from your chair then you shouldn't be at a protest.
    If you're pushed from your wheelchair, you also have the added risk of having your possibly heavy wheelchair fall on top of you, the rioters could also damage the chair too.

    Your soundbite doesn't sound so good in another context does it. If Jody is relying on his disability as some sort of excuse as to why he should get special treatment from the police then he's obviously too frail to attend a protest. Unless of course it's just a convienient excuse, which I suspect it is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    isn't their training to deal with situations like this?

    Yes. If someone is sitting down and is unable or unwilling to move, then you pick them up and move them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    If Jody is relying on his disability as some sort of excuse as to why he should get special treatment from the police then he's obviously too frail to attend a protest. Unless of course it's just a convienient excuse, which I suspect it is.

    Since when was "please don't push me out of my wheelchair" special treatment? It's totally different to just being pushed away. It's nothing to do with being frail. Reasonable force and all that.

    You're quite clueless when it comes to disability.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A differing of opinion doesn't make me clueless about disability. I could say you are completely clueless about the realities of police work but why bother? I'm not trying to be antagonistic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    A differing of opinion doesn't make me clueless about disability. I could say you are completely clueless about the realities of police work but why bother? I'm not trying to be antagonistic.

    So you agree with the action and then with hitting a man who can't fight back?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    Bollocks. If you've got a disability or injury that could get worse if you fall out/are removed from your chair then you shouldn't be at a protest.

    Sorry but that's just crap. Your right and desire to protest isn't dependant on your health status.

    I have no problem with him being removed from his chair, however the police have a hell of a lot to learn about "due care". It seems to be a surprise that taking a rough handed approach isn't always the best option. Especially when your excuse is that you are moving him for his safety.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    So you agree with the action and then with hitting a man who can't fight back?

    I never said I agreed or disagreed with what they did. My disagreement is with the assumption that this guy is helpless and should be treated differently to the other protestors simply because he was in a wheelchair, when he quite clearly isn't. Yes, he might have difficulty walking, but he obviously doesn't see it as a hinderance to being present at a protest where violence is escalating and there is a chance of injury. And Slarti, it wasn't a peaceful protest, it was quite obvious that if they were preparing a mounted charge things were getting dangerous.

    I personally thing their reason for moving him is rubbish, it's obvious he wanted to be there and had accepted the possibility of injury to himself, I just know that if they'd left him and he'd been injured the police would have been as heavily criticised as they have been for moving him.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://www.mitchell-images.com/#/jody-mcintyre/4551826551


    Maybe young Mr McIntyre was dragged out of his chair, by the look of the first couple of photos he looks quite able to have a go in return. Maybe, shock horror, he over-exaggerated the entire thing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    http://www.mitchell-images.com/#/jody-mcintyre/4551826551


    Maybe young Mr McIntyre was dragged out of his chair, by the look of the first couple of photos he looks quite able to have a go in return. Maybe, shock horror, he over-exaggerated the entire thing.

    I think those photos suggest he was perhaps a little misleading.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    http://www.mitchell-images.com/#/jody-mcintyre/4551826551


    Maybe young Mr McIntyre was dragged out of his chair, by the look of the first couple of photos he looks quite able to have a go in return. Maybe, shock horror, he over-exaggerated the entire thing.
    Though the photographs blatantly involve two different men... The man in the beige jacket is the same man seen pushing him along in other photographs of the event. Possibly his brother or friend? Unless you are suggesting they swapped clothes and one guy grew his hair and fluffed it out all in the space of one demo.

    Though the other photographs, he's seen standing (or attempting to stand), it's hard to tell how good his balance is.

    Either way, the inquiry openly says he was pulled from his chair and hit by a police officer. Whether or not he can walk a few steps, whether or not he could have been in danger from police tactics is irrelevant. He was assaulted by a police officer as well, with a weapon... And what for?

    Oh yes, personal safety.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The report also accepted accidental hitting, not deliberate targeting, which is likely to have occurred whilst the wheel chair was at the front of the increasingly violent crowd.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »

    Either way, the inquiry openly says he was pulled from his chair and hit by a police officer. Whether or not he can walk a few steps, whether or not he could have been in danger from police tactics is irrelevant. He was assaulted by a police officer as well, with a weapon... And what for?

    Oh yes, personal safety.


    And that same enquiry said the level of force used was entirely appropriate.

    People here are quite happy to agree with the enquiries when it suits them (a'la Ian Tomlinson) but as soon as the enquiries find that the police acted lawfully and appropriately it must be wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    Bollocks. If you've got a disability or injury that could get worse if you fall out/are removed from your chair then you shouldn't be at a protest.

    Yeah, disabled people, don't you dare try to defend your rights. Stay at home like good boys and girls and restrict your protests to calling Cameron a cunt.

    If Jody is relying on his disability as some sort of excuse as to why he should get special treatment from the police then he's obviously too frail to attend a protest. Unless of course it's just a convienient excuse, which I suspect it is.

    Except he's not is he?

    He's saying that nobody should be battered by some knuckle-headed rozzer with a big stick but they especially shouldn't be dragged out of a wheelchair and battered by some knuckle-headed rozzer with a big stick.

    He's not asking for special treatment, he's asking the filthy cunts in the Met to stop acting like complete fuckers and to start acting like human beings.

    However I don't think he'll be holding his breath for police officers to stop being snivelling cowardly little cunts (hello PC Harwood et al) who are brave with their big sticks against people smaller and weaker then them. Maybe the Met will one day be staffed by human beings and not dogshit in day-glo Nylon, but I doubt it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe the Met will one day be staffed by human beings and not dogshit in day-glo Nylon, but I doubt it.

    And maybe one day the "protestors" in London will manage to protest without resorting to chucking bricks at people and smashing up shops, by you know, acting like adults instead of throwing their toys out the pram every time something happens that they don't agree with.

    How about next time they disagree with something they hold a riot on their own street, smash their own stuff up instead of inflicting it on everyone else?
Sign In or Register to comment.