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Is this so wrong?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Been ripped to shreds on another forum by feminazis over my views on marriage/life partnerships or whatever depending on how PC you want to be. All I said was...
In a marriage or permanent relationship I think it's one of the wife's roles to look her best for her man wherever possible.
However....
I believe in return it's up to the husband to make his wife feel sexy, wanted, needed and loved wherever possible too.
Is that such a bad thing? The feminazis seemed to miss where I say 'wherever possible', I'm hoping you guys don't...
In a marriage or permanent relationship I think it's one of the wife's roles to look her best for her man wherever possible.
However....
I believe in return it's up to the husband to make his wife feel sexy, wanted, needed and loved wherever possible too.
Is that such a bad thing? The feminazis seemed to miss where I say 'wherever possible', I'm hoping you guys don't...
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Likewise don't most men want to feel needed and cherised?
I think its a two way street withe both actually wanting the same things
If that's what your ideal relationship would be like, that's great, good for you. Why the need to generalize? Why make the further, much bolder claim that "in a marriage, one of the woman's roles should be..."? Why can't it be up to each couple to decide for themselves what their respective roles should be? And if you agree with that, then you should stop making generalizing assertions about what the proper role of individuals in their own marriages should be. That kind of interference in other people's sphere of personal autonomy winds me up. Why not simply say "I would expect my wife to try to look her best for me", and leave it up to me and my husband to decide whether that rule applies to us too?
Incidentally, if a guy expected me to look my best wherever possible, it's not unreasonable to ask for the same back, otherwise you just end up in ridiculous situations like this
I still don't get your point. Are you trying to make a claim about what all marriages should be like? Or just about what you want your own to be like?
Both I guess. I'm aware I'm using generalisations however I don't see them as being offensive.
Just generally 'looking good' - my point was I considered both 'roles' to be equally as important.
I don't find it offensive either, just unnecessary and intolerant. It's simply not my place to tell other people what their relationships ought to be like, and I don't really get why you think it's your place either. Why the desire to tell other people how to live their lives?
If someone expected me to look 'my best' all the time, they'd be waiting around for me a whole lot, since for me to look 'my best' according to ME, I have to spend at least half an hour doing my face. I don't fancy doing that every day, so if you don't mind, I'll stick to mascara and eyebrows and hair (that, when long, can take anywhere up to ANOTHER half hour to do properly).
I cba to look my best all the time when I look half-decent when I don't bother anyway.
Saying that, when i was pregnant and postnatal and big and fat, it didnt seem to affect how attracted he was to me thankfully, so maybe im the shallow one?
I dont think its a wifes duty, but i do think if you completely let yourself go, it doesnt show much respect for your partner
Or maybe you care more about how you look than he does? which I don't always makes you shallow.
Wind your neck in, I haven't told anyone how to live their lives. It was a discussion about roles in relationships and I gave my view of what I though it should be. I don't know how you take part in debates but simply giving your view does not mean you're telling others to follow it.
You asked "is this so wrong?" My response is, if that's how you want to live your life, and can find someone else who is happy to live her life like that, no, it's not wrong. What is wrong is when you start making statements like "a woman's role should be...", or "any marriage should be like...", because this is prescriptive and intolerant. You're not just giving your view about what your marriage should be like. By your own admission, you're giving your view about what other people's marriages should be like too. If you are making statements like these then you are saying you think you have some authority to tell people how they ought to live, and I find that illiberal.
I don't get what's so difficult to understand. There are two possible points you might be making:
1. In my marriage, I expect my wife to act a certain way. This I have no objections to, and nothing to say about it at all, it's none of my business if you're both consenting adults.
2. In marriages generally, women ought to act a certain way. If you're making that point, you're trying to tell other people what their marriages ought to be like, and I think it's none of your business.
If you don't want to know why people might object to your view, why ask the question?
Except that in this case, your view is a view about how other people ought to live, so by saying "women ought to do x", you are saying they ought to follow it. If not, what else could you possibly be saying? Either you're telling other people how to live, or your statement is meaningless.
Ok, I will retire from trying to reason with you after this point, because only a fool continues to try to reason with the unreasonable.
I am not trying to shoe-horn you into anything. I am responding to arguments you yourself have made. The problem is, you don't seem to understand what conclusions those arguments rationally commit you to, so are trying to avoid them, when you can't.
If I have a view about which flavour of pot noodle is the tastiest, then no, I am not trying to force everyone to agree with me or making judgements about how other people should live. If I have a view about how me and my husband should behave, then no, I am not trying to tell other people how to live. If I have a view about what flavour pot noodle other people ought to like the best, or how other people ought to conduct their marriages, then yes, I am claiming some authority over how other people ought to live. That is definitionally true; it can't be denied.
Try reading me carefully and thinking about my arguments slowly and rationally before banging out a reply about misogyny and feminazis and blah blah blah, because I've got absolutely NO feminist beef in this thread with you at all. This is my point :
I asked you, "are you making a statement about what your marriage should be like? Or are you making a judgement about what all marriages should be like?"
You replied: "both".
Glenn, this is a judgement about how other people ought to live - a judgement about what other marriages, not just your own, ought to be like. Are you really claiming not to see that??
I find that unnecessary. I don't judge your relationship, you shouldn't judge mine, live and let live, etc. That is my one and only objection to the things you said in your first post. Nothing feminazi there, see?
But if you honestly cannot understand why making generalizing claims about what other people's marriages ought to be like is making a prescriptive judgement about how other people ought to live, then I really am wasting my time trying to discuss anything with you.
Come on now Glen, you're equivocating like a muthafucker. No one's suggested that tacit in expressing one's opinion is the expectation of agreement - stick to your guns or concede the point, don't try shift the ground.
You're just steps away from "I'm entitled to my opinion": a shit argument's death rattle.
Exactly. In this debate there are only two possible options: triviality, or biting the bullet.
As a generalism, and certainly in my own relationship, I don' think it's possible to define "roles" in any sense. A relationship is a partnership and you both have responsibility to each other to achieve any aims - whether that is image or chores.
:yes:
Also why the gender specific responsibilities? Surely if its a womans responsibility to look good its also a mans. Also men need love and affection too.