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Would it be incredibly rude

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
If i wrote back to our office manager requesting that she writes emails in proper english and not text speak? She is 10 years older than me and generally quite rude so i nearly always bite my tounge but it annoys the hell out of me and i think its really unprofessional.

I am on a higher grade than her and therefore technically abover her though not her direct line manager - hummm

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wyetry wrote: »
    If i wrote back to our office manager requesting that she writes emails in proper english and not text speak? She is 10 years older than me and generally quite rude so i nearly always bite my tounge but it annoys the hell out of me and i think its really unprofessional.

    I am on a higher grade than her and therefore technically abover her though not her direct line manager - hummm

    I don't believe it would be, no.

    If I found one of my team, or even not on my team using such nonsense, I'd be having a word, too. It has no place in a professional environment.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    TBH its just one of a very long list of annoying things she does including talking on the phone with her mouth full, constatntly being off ill, only ever working her exact hours to the minuite and loudly complaining if she has to stay after 5 when everyone else is working thier ass off - ohh and spending money that we dont' have.
  • Olly_BOlly_B Mod-u-like Posts: 222 Settling in
    Hi Wyerty,

    There seems to be two different issues here.

    Firstly, your irritations against her. She may be doing things *differently* to you, but as long as she is performing her job then these things are not wrong. Writing in text speak is annoying to you, but unless it's specified as a compentency in her job: its you that has the problem, not her. Equally talking whilst on the phone, unless this is actually causing a negative reaction by external clients then there is little she is doing wrong. So you can approach it that way: "this might sound really anal, but i get annoyed when people write in text speak" or "i find it difficult to concentrate because i can see you eating on the phone, i think it can come across as unprofessional".

    Secondly, problems with time management, being ill etc. Again, different people have different priorities, and for all you know she has someone at cares for that she has a small window to collect. She has bigger things to worry about than what happens at the office. Don't place your values on someone else. (Personally I hate people who think that they have to work beyond their hours simply to be seen to be a good employee).

    If this is affecting her performance, then it is for her line manager to resolve and you, in your position, should support them by providing examples of when her performance was below par. Equally, if you think her attitude is affecting performance of her colleagues then this needs to be tackled by her line manager.

    If it not affecting her performance, then its you who has got the problem, not her. That doesn't mean they can't be resolved, but don't present it as her problem.

    Olly
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Olly_B wrote: »
    Hi Wyerty,

    There seems to be two different issues here.

    Firstly, your irritations against her. She may be doing things *differently* to you, but as long as she is performing her job then these things are not wrong. Writing in text speak is annoying to you, but unless it's specified as a compentency in her job: its you that has the problem, not her. Equally talking whilst on the phone, unless this is actually causing a negative reaction by external clients then there is little she is doing wrong. So you can approach it that way: "this might sound really anal, but i get annoyed when people write in text speak" or "i find it difficult to concentrate because i can see you eating on the phone, i think it can come across as unprofessional".

    Secondly, problems with time management, being ill etc. Again, different people have different priorities, and for all you know she has someone at cares for that she has a small window to collect. She has bigger things to worry about than what happens at the office. Don't place your values on someone else. (Personally I hate people who think that they have to work beyond their hours simply to be seen to be a good employee).

    If this is affecting her performance, then it is for her line manager to resolve and you, in your position, should support them by providing examples of when her performance was below par. Equally, if you think her attitude is affecting performance of her colleagues then this needs to be tackled by her line manager.

    If it not affecting her performance, then its you who has got the problem, not her. That doesn't mean they can't be resolved, but don't present it as her problem.

    Olly

    Sorry I don't agree with this at all. I don't think text speak is appropriate in a work environment, it's unprofessional.

    I also don't agree with what you said about working outside your contracted hours - sometimes things just have to be finished, and it's pretty shit for someone to just leave while everyone else is just getting on with it.
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    kangoo wrote: »

    I also don't agree with what you said about working outside your contracted hours - sometimes things just have to be finished, and it's pretty shit for someone to just leave while everyone else is just getting on with it.

    I think you might have slightly understood what Olly is getting at, I think he's talking about the idea of people staying late for the sake of it to try and make themselves look good and the general culture of staying late when things probably could be finished within office hours.

    I've known Olly to work on a Saturday, so he's certainly not averse to the concept of working beyond a certain hour to get necessary things done...it's more when it's done in a "ooh look at me, I'm a martyr staying late." ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    **helen** wrote: »
    I think you might have slightly understood what Olly is getting at, I think he's talking about the idea of people staying late for the sake of it to try and make themselves look good and the general culture of staying late when things probably could be finished within office hours.

    I've known Olly to work on a Saturday, so he's certainly not averse to the concept of working beyond a certain hour to get necessary things done...it's more when it's done in a "ooh look at me, I'm a martyr staying late." ;)

    Yes but that's not what Wyetry said, she said that the woman won't work a minute past 5 when everyone else is working their ass off. Which is completely different than acting like a martyr.

    I think Olly's post came accross a bit bitchy and not very understanding, especially saying it's Wyetry's problem when she's clearly having problems with someone who sounds quite unprofessional, which can be annoying and frustrating, especially when you have to work with them all day.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I possibly shoudl have made it a bit more clear that she does occasionally work longer hours but makes a massive fuss about having to stay an hour late to do something and wanting everyone to slap her on the back and say well done when pretty much everyone else works hard and doesnt' make a big deal out of it.

    However i've noticed that she annoys pretty much everyone in the office not just me and my line manager (who is also not her line manager) has said that she will take her up on a couple of issues where she has not been doing her job properly including a potentialy embarrasing mix up with one of our major funders.

    I guess my main problem is that i've never worked with anyone who has rubbed me up the wrong way so much - i'm used to working with people who are really nice and i guess on the same wave length as me - i've taken to wearing headphones and listening to loud music to avoid having to hear her be rude to yet another person on the phone.

    Gahaha anyway i've only 2 weeks left and then i'm off for a year - yay
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if youve only got two weeks left, then definitely mention it to her.
    How come youre off for a year? Maternity leave?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if youve only got two weeks left, then definitely mention it to her.
    How come youre off for a year? Maternity leave?

    lol I would say the opposite, with just two weeks left surely its better to grin and bear it and leave on 'good' terms (even if you're annoyed?).

    I kinda agree with ollie in the sense if it's not affecting her work then she's not doing anything wrong per se even if you feel it's unprofessional, it would be up to her managers to deal with it. Another example I could fathom would be say someone was a street cleaner and smoked while he did it, I would definitely not find that professional and perhaps even offensive but if the boss says its fine as long as the work gets done then the 'problem' would be me not liking his behaviour (which I think most of us would agree is not nice, just as in your example), rather than them failing to do their job which would be a legitimate issue to raise.

    But that's just my 2p :) I think there are a range of views on the issue as you don't want to work with someone you loathe (I have been there :() but for the sake of two weeks if it was me I would just muddle through.

    as a personal thing as well I have worked beyond my hours before and it does feel like an obligation especially if you don't get paid for the extra time, I don't think management should take advantage of staff like that and don't think staff should bitch at each rather it should be staff vs management for having poorly managed workloads that require people to stay late... but then again we live in the UK which prides itself on overworking
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wyetry wrote: »
    If i wrote back to our office manager requesting that she writes emails in proper english and not text speak?

    I would have a word with her about this. Not everyone understands text speak. (I don't and my first language is English)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    On the text speak thing it would not be unreasonable to put in a request that she writes emails in standrard english. For the sake of a quiet life you can always bring it back on yourself and say you're not used to abbreviations and struggle to read the emails easily.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't agree with Olly's post either (or the aggressive way in which it came across, another thread perhaps) I mean, yes, it's worth bearing in mind that we're the owner of our emotions and all that, but I'd be really shocked if someone thought it was acceptable to write in txt speak in a professional capacity.
    For the sake of a quiet life you can always bring it back on yourself and say you're not used to abbreviations and struggle to read the emails easily.

    I'd do this :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away wrote: »
    but I'd be really shocked if someone thought it was acceptable to write in txt speak in a professional capacity.

    Though I agree with you from my personal perspective, it does depend where you work and ultimately it's the bosses who have the final say on what they expect from the business. Another crude example: a local mechanic's near to me is called "Lester Motorcycles" (should be spelt Leicester, but some chavs called it lesta and it seems to have stuck to an extent), and it grates on me every time I go there. But, it's up to the business owner as it's his business, no? The standards of professionalism he or she expects are what matter rather than the standards his employees desire.

    I've worked in places before where it was de rigueur to type in very formal language (almost like university-paper scientific language). Other places I've worked, the internal mails consisted of almost no content except the important stuff i.e. "cus order num: 12345678910 needs checking". So whilst in principle I agree with what you are saying (though I don't think Olly was being hostile) that it would annoy me and even when I send over a quick informal note to my boss at work I always use the proper formalities - there's no reason why our standard is universally correct and it would depend on the place of work, and most importantly what the management was happy with.

    In another thread, about going on the internet at work, many said their bosses didn't mind as long as they get the work done. Isn't this the same? As long as this lady is getting her work done and isn't alienating customers (I'm not saying she isn't btw, I'm just being hypothetical for the sake of argument as this is a subject I'm quite interested in heh) then why should the finger be pointed at her for doing something wrong, even if she has completed her duties fine?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away wrote: »
    I don't agree with Olly's post either (or the aggressive way in which it came across, another thread perhaps)

    I don't think it was particularly aggressive, using the fact that she leaves at her contractual leaving time against her isn't really very fair. And with the sickness you don't know what's causing it or why she's off sick a lot.

    Text speak in a work environment, rudeness and talking with your mouth full is a big no-no though.
  • Olly_BOlly_B Mod-u-like Posts: 222 Settling in
    Hi,

    My initial post appears to have kicked off a debtate, apologies if I came across as rude; it was obviously never my intention.

    I guess my stance comes from having worked in a variety of environments, and also been a trainer on plenty of volunteer management courses (usually teaching volunteers to manage other volunteers). And my management philophosy boils down to this: manage outputs, lead on outcomes and be an equal on everything else.

    So if something is affecting previously-agreed performance targets (either theirs or their colleagues), then you should manage that ("the stick"). If you feel somebody is doing something that is below standard, then you need to lead/encourage them to do it better ("the carrot").

    What you shouldn't do is attempt to manage elements of the person's job that aren't based on agreed targets. It's not fair on them. Unfortuantely, too many managers tend to do this.

    So what I was getting at in my original post was that telling someone off for doing something that isn't affecting measurable targets isn't fair on her. If, as a result of her writing text-speak, others can not complete their job then that is obviously something that should be managed. But getting her to want to change her behaviour simply because it doesn't meet your standard is what leadership is all about ("be the person you want others to become").

    I'd say that "unprofessional" is a personal standard: wearing jeans and a t-shirt to work will be seen by unprofessional by a lot of people, but there are a lot of companies where it is perfectably acceptable. Equally, using swearwords in a meeting would be a big no-no, but I've worked in newsrooms where every other sentence is littered with an expletive. What is professional really depends on the environment you are working in.

    All that said, this is my personal opinion on management style; and I've not worked for an out-and-out commerical organisation (probably more out of choice than chance).

    Finally, I've never said you should only work your hours: I'm more than happy to work beyond my hours when the job requires it. But I don't like a culture where people are expected to stay beyond their hours simply to demonstrate commitment to the company.


    Olly
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Communication at work should be appropriate for the audience reading the communication. Since the person reading these emails is you, she shouldn't be using text speak if you don't like it. But really it is for her boss to make that distinction, though you could probably approach it in an indirect way.

    Personally if I were leaving in a couple of weeks I think I'd just leave it.
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