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Racist

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
I just realized that my boyfriend extended family is kind of racist. Everyone in his faimly is sort of well off and lives in the good towns and suburbs... his dad isn't much different. I grew up in a town that was almost half latino. My parents got angry at me for calling a guy mexican who called himself mexican because I wan't 100% sure he was actually fromn Mexico. So I don't know if I'm the polar opposite of a racist because of the anger I got growing up for mentioning anyting that could be considerred racist... I mean its irrelevent to most of you but I have lived and worked in horrible parts of chicago, and even in a semi-rizty part of chicago, my full time job is in a place where I am the only white girl. And the only part I'm ashamed of is that I took french in school instead of spanish so I only know part of what they are tlaking about. I'm often times disgusted by what my boyfriend says and I will always call him out on it... but now that I've spent a holday with them and ralized what the rest have to say... I'm downright enraged. The "mexicans" that do your yard work and the "blacks" that break into your car lot... I thought that people in a big city were more accepting... yet I grew up in a small hick town and I cannot believe and the stuff I heard tonight. I'm downright surprised that the "indians" weren't invovled in any conversations. I'm embarasesd, I'm humilated and I'm sick at the way some people could talk. I doubt any one of them has ever even had a conversation with anybody but themselves.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They're clearly making comments that are downright nasty and out of order.

    If it was me, I'd enlighten them. Every time they make comments like that, I'd correct them and say for example "well actually, not all of them are like that, I know plenty of nice african americans." Obviously, being polite and genteel about it all. They probably don't realise how horrible they sound.

    If they carried on with the remarks I would just stop being around them otherwise it could put a downer on you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That is pretty rubbish.

    I reckon that you probably won't be able to change something that is deeply engrained into their way of life. If they are grown adults and still have the same thoughts, they are not that likely to do an about-turn.

    You might be able to work on your boyfriend, and hope that some of what you can do with him can rub off on them, but with the extended family it may be as well to turn a blind eye to it. Depending, of course, on how often you have to see them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah I have the same thing to a certain extent with my boyfriend and his family. With his family I just ignore it but I don't nod or agree with anything they are saying, I just sit completely blank-faced and don't respond at all hoping they will get the message that I don't share their views. With my boyfriend I am a lot more vocal and have a go at him when he says certain things and tell him straight up I find them really offensive.

    It is just ignorance a lot of the time and experience of being brought up in a family/area/with friends who have certain views about other groups of people that rub off or are seen as normal. I think a lot of older people do hold different views about anyone "different" to them because those are the views they were brought up with and it is very hard to get them to change their point of view.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah I just did the same thing as Firefly with an ex's family.. Stay blank-faced and it pretty much shows your disapproval. If they asked my thoughts on something then I would tell them how much I disagreed with them but that was it. I couldn't be arsed being in a debate with someone so stuck in their narrow-minded views. I guess I should have guessed when his dad was giving me a lift back home and said 'So Rachael what do you think about the BNP...?' NIGHTMARE :shocking: :shocking: I think it's important to remember that you aren't responsible for 'defending' anything or attempting to change their views because sadly it probably won't happen.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This uber-political correctness is going on my nerves. This skin pigment-favored / afro-asiatic German with polish roots etc etc. garbage.
    "Neger" (NOT Nigger, lat. for 'black') was the most acceptable thing in like the 70s over here. Suddenly it changed to "Schwarzer" (black person), then that wasn't acceptable either anymore, and it became "Farbiger" (coloured person), now this is obviously outrageous and there are 300 other terms, which are obviously better.
    I call them "Schwarze" oder "Farbige" as I have ab-so-lute-ly no problem with them calling me "white" and there is ZERO racist background behind it.

    If I'd throw a tantrum every time someone doesn't know Austria and refers to me as a German, I'd probably have cancer by now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    "Neger" (NOT Nigger, lat. for 'black') was the most acceptable thing in like the 70s over here. Suddenly it changed to "Schwarzer" (black person), then that wasn't acceptable either anymore
    .

    So Arnold Schwarzerneger's name translates as Arnold blackblack? :)

    I grew up in an all-White, all Catholic area so it was homogenous and grew up hearing all sorts of shite so I'm desensitised to it. I'd still pull someone up if they used the language but it wouldn't come as a shock to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    I call them "Schwarze" oder "Farbige" as I have ab-so-lute-ly no problem with them calling me "white" and there is ZERO racist background behind it.

    Yeah, coz it is all about how you feel.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mist wrote: »
    That is pretty rubbish.

    I reckon that you probably won't be able to change something that is deeply engrained into their way of life. If they are grown adults and still have the same thoughts, they are not that likely to do an about-turn.

    You might be able to work on your boyfriend, and hope that some of what you can do with him can rub off on them, but with the extended family it may be as well to turn a blind eye to it. Depending, of course, on how often you have to see them.

    Yeah, I"ve trained Ed quite well :p It was usually only an odd comment here and there regarding some steryotypical race one has to be for a certian job... and thats pretty much stopped but his family was just so gross.

    I guess it really got me last night as I've got some nasty hick disgusting relatives that nobody really talks about or talks to also, and it was like I was forced to hang out with them also! I think I'll just stay home next family get-to-gether.

    And thank you for all of your help :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Yeah, coz it is all about how you feel.

    Duh... Sorry if I fail to see that calling someone "coloured" should be in any way disregarding. Now the hip thing to do is calling them Afro-[country where they live in]. Guess what, not everyone who's black is from Africa. And there are white people from Africa too.
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    So Arnold Schwarzerneger's name translates as Arnold blackblack? :)

    Well, he's called "Schwarzen-egger" (without the hyphen), so it practically means nothing, but it's rather close, yea... (come to think of it.)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ha ha, ignorant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    ha ha, ignorant.

    What? The pot calling the kettle black? 2011 we'll have discussion that the Afro-[country]-address will be a huuuuge offense, because you are characterizing them from where they come from (gasp!) and you will be right there in the first line calling people ignorant who have the cheek to call them like that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Time to give the boyfriend and his family ...the boot.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katchika wrote: »
    because to me they generally seem stupid..

    That's what I found too. Haven't met a single racist who could fortify or support his way of thinking (that doesn't mean I meet racists.. but.. you know). It's either adopted at a young age, from parents/relatives, or some kind of generalization (been mugged by coloured people 12 times, by white people 3 times --> coloured peeps are bad, mmkay). If there is no reason for someone to be like that, it's even harder to convince him, that he's unreasonable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Time to give the boyfriend and his family ...the boot.

    Bit harsh. Its not really the boyfriend's fault what his family is like, and Simba says her boyfriend has calmed down nowadays, it's just the family, who she doesn't really have to associate with all that much I expect.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    What? The pot calling the kettle black? 2011 we'll have discussion that the Afro-[country]-address will be a huuuuge offense, because you are characterizing them from where they come from (gasp!) and you will be right there in the first line calling people ignorant who have the cheek to call them like that.

    Perhaps, that depends on what happens to the self-identities and imposed stereotypes to the groupings created by the words by then. You are missing the point.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Perhaps, that depends on what happens to the self-identities and imposed stereotypes to the groupings created by the words by then. You are missing the point.

    Or I might be missing how words like "coloured" set off imposed stereotypes and flawed those people self-identities, at least over here,
    I can say "coloured" and mean that in the most normal way, with no intention of offending, as I do, or I could say "Afro-Austrian" and mean that in a real nasty way, because I despise that person for his heritage and home country.

    It goes on my tits if I hear "hey! you just said 'coloured'!" as if I called him an idiot or asshole.

    What you are missing, however, is constructive contribution to this thread, since up to now I just saw you goof on me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I haven't goofed on you every contribution of the thread. I think my point here was even brought up in the OP. I see what you're saying about your intentions not being malicious, I also agree with you on the amusing Afro-this label and was having a similar dicussion with a black friend last weekend about how we would be called African-American by appearance if we were in America even though we are neither African nor American both. Without wanting to goof/pick/whatever onn you now, I find it a small but worthwhile pain to make the adjustment of my vocab to avoid offense to a racil/whatever group by using whatever term is currently the self-identifying, PC, unoffensive term and don't understand why you wouldn't too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's nothing you can do. Attempting to "correct" or "enlighten" someone with racist attitudes just makes them feel they're being patronised, and they'll just dig their heels in.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I find it a small but worthwhile pain to make the adjustment of my vocab to avoid offense to a racil/whatever group by using whatever term is currently the self-identifying, PC, unoffensive term and don't understand why you wouldn't too.

    I am not smug about "HarHar! I use outdated vocabs to refer to people of different skin pigmentation, because I can!" It's just I can't see what was offensive about the term "coloured" plus the newer terms are even sillier. As Afro-something is on the verge, I can really see it becoming 'skin pigment-favored" or something like that in a matter of years. I think this discussion is pretty pointless, because if someone addressed me in whatever way but without any malicious intent, I'd be never offended, unfortunately I seem to expect that from other people too, my bad.
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    There's nothing you can do. Attempting to "correct" or "enlighten" someone with racist attitudes just makes them feel they're being patronised, and they'll just dig their heels in.

    I hope that's no dig at me, because that would be the most ridiculous underhanded statement I heard in a long long while.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    I hope that's no dig at me, because that would be the most ridiculous underhanded statement I heard in a long long while.
    Don't know where you get that idea from. I was responding to the original question, not the inane argument you got into.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You think my points are inane? Right, that's it, you're picking on me, I'm telling a mod now!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    Duh... Sorry if I fail to see that calling someone "coloured" should be in any way disregarding. Now the hip thing to do is calling them Afro-[country where they live in].
    Isn't it up to "them" how "they" want to be referred to?

    Language changes, as to attitudes.

    I mean if a group don't like a word any more, for whatever reason then surely you are losing less by omitting a word from your vocabulary than another person is from being made uncomfortable by that word.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Simba, I was surprised how racist and homophobic people can be in the city too, as I naively thought that somewhere as middle class as where I am now would be more accepting than my very working class home town. Racism knows no bounds hey...

    It probably is horrible to hear what they have to say and it can be annoying as hell, especially if you have friends from the groups they are slagging off... But their racism is their own problem, not yours. At the end of the day their ignorance will make them miss out on opportunities and on meeting and being open to some potential friends.

    If they want to live in their deluded world of two dimensional ethnic stereotypes let them. If it bothers you that much challenge them...

    But in my experience it can be very hard to challenge somebody with racist views without coming across as preachy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Isn't it up to "them" how "they" want to be referred to?

    Language changes, as to attitudes.

    I mean if a group don't like a word any more, for whatever reason then surely you are losing less by omitting a word from your vocabulary than another person is from being made uncomfortable by that word.

    true, but what I was saying I do not understand what's racist about "coloured". Alright, maybe someone conceived it as racist, because you are characterizing this person by the means of skin pigmentation, but that's the same with the Afro-whatever, since you are characterizing him by his home country, heritage, culture and it's just a matter of time until this will be seen as racist. It will go on and on until every earthling of whatever origin, heritage etc can be addressed as "person" end of.

    I wonder why they chose to be called "coloured" when very soon it makes them uncomfortable. Who decides what's the 'political correct' term? Maybe I am a way too logical person about this, but like I wanted to demonstrate with the example, that I can use the term 'coloured' in a totally usual and harmless way, but could use the Afro-address as - "hey.. look at that afro-zaire uganda whatever dude over there" - really derogatory. Some people will always be offended by WHATEVER characteristic (and be it just the "red head" over there), why is it so complicated to just settle for one goddamn harmless term, since nobody uses it maliciously anyway?

    but like I said, I might be just too logical and perfectionist about it. I'm outtie as this will go on and on without anyone able to understand the other one.


    Oh and Stargalaxy. I was always puzzled why nobody on here can stand you. It begins to make sense to me now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    God i was going to make a post about this as well - i've spend the weekend with my friends talking about how offended we are by people we know being racist - and how annoyingly small town people can be - but also utterly bored with it - like OMG someone comes from somewhere else in the world get over it ffs.

    Like not even thinking - more like ohh there is a black lady where i work and she is really nice you know - like putting the colour of her skin above the fact that she is a really nice lady and being suprised by the fact that she might be nice. And the worst thing is that people don't even mean it maliciously - 99% of the time they think they are being nice - urrggghghghghgh.

    I think it might just be a bit of a my generation growing up in london thing - i do try and be slightly allowancy making becuase some people i know genuinely aren't doing it becuase they realise that they are being racist - like the actually think they aren't - but i'm so fed up of it now.

    I'm not even making any sense - because i can't be bothered to put it into proper scentences.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    true, but what I was saying I do not understand what's racist about "coloured".

    Coloured is considered racist because it's so non-specific. It used to be used to refer to everyone who wasn't white, and so has the suggestion of lumping all of the "foreign-looking" people together. Whatever the intentions of the person using the term, it's not exactly nice. Calling someone "black" or "African" on the other hand, is merely offering a physical description. "Coloured" offers nothing beyond the fact that they are not white.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Coloured is considered racist because it's so non-specific. It used to be used to refer to everyone who wasn't white, and so has the suggestion of lumping all of the "foreign-looking" people together. Whatever the intentions of the person using the term, it's not exactly nice. Calling someone "black" or "African" on the other hand, is merely offering a physical description. "Coloured" offers nothing beyond the fact that they are not white.

    oh that makes more sense than what i thought it was. i thought it was because everyone is of 'colour' in some way so isn't really specific.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Coloured is considered racist because it's so non-specific. It used to be used to refer to everyone who wasn't white, and so has the suggestion of lumping all of the "foreign-looking" people together. Whatever the intentions of the person using the term, it's not exactly nice. Calling someone "black" or "African" on the other hand, is merely offering a physical description. "Coloured" offers nothing beyond the fact that they are not white.
    Well some of my friends prefer the term 'People of Colour'.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    true, but what I was saying I do not understand what's racist about "coloured". Alright, maybe someone conceived it as racist, because you are characterizing this person by the means of skin pigmentation, but that's the same with the Afro-whatever, since you are characterizing him by his home country, heritage, culture and it's just a matter of time until this will be seen as racist. It will go on and on until every earthling of whatever origin, heritage etc can be addressed as "person" end of.
    If you want to know why the term "coloured" is racist (I thought that it was a term mainly used for people of African descent?) then ask somebody from an ethnic group. They'd be the best to say what is offensive or not as it affects them more than anyone.
    Some people will always be offended by WHATEVER characteristic (and be it just the "red head" over there), why is it so complicated to just settle for one goddamn harmless term, since nobody uses it maliciously anyway?
    To be fair though, people aren't held back as much for having red hair than for their ethnicity.

    But it would be interesting to hear from a mixed race or BME thesiter on the issue.
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