Home› Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options

Police calls for a compulsory national DNA database rejected

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
in Politics & Debate
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7260164.stm

I have only just picked this up on the Beeb, but in light of the fact that we have had widespread media coverage of two horrific murders of the last few days, this seems a little reactionary.

I do not doubt that the proposing Detective Superintendent honestly believes that this will help him cut crime, but not a thought appears to be given to the wider context of such a database and its impact. Though these are certainly serious and deplorable crimes, but we often hear this from Police right after serious crimes.

I remember a lady from ACPO going on Question Time and horrfying (for variety of reasons) the audience by suggesting that it was ACPO's position that they supported the death penalty for the murder of police officers (specifically police officers).

There are many people involved in 'the Police' and they are under fire daily, BUT I wonder when their duty to protect the public will begin to extend to protecting the things that make are central to our public life.

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The wish list approach that the western countries have taken for the last decade is currently meeting the harsh reality of paying the bills.

    They cannot afford any new big projects, they've given it all to Adam Applegarth and co.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ^^^and Capita
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MB - you an Eye reader as well?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is good news, but it's sad that people who haven't been convicted of crimes have to go to the European Court of Human Rights to complain about their DNA being kept, and this in England of all places! What a government we're under.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Runnymede wrote: »
    This is good news, but it's sad that people who haven't been convicted of crimes have to go to the European Court of Human Rights to complain about their DNA being kept, and this in England of all places! What a government we're under.
    Indeed. Far from the DNA database being made national, it should be scaled down massively. The only people who should be on there are convicted criminals - those who have been found guilty of serious criminal offences.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MattLiverpool wrote: »
    If i had my DNA on a database, would there be anything for me to worry about?
    You'd have everything to worry about! Do you trust the authorities to keep your information safe? You'd be naive to do so - government departments all over the land lose discs and data like there's no tomorrow. Do you really fancy your DNA being obtained by criminals? And before anyone says "yes, but the police aren't a government department", bollocks. The relationship between the police and politicians in this country is frankly incestuous - just ask Sir Ian Blair. If the establishment hadn't backed him up, he'd now be out of a job.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MattLiverpool wrote: »
    what difference would their DNA on a database make?

    If i had my DNA on a database, would there be anything for me to worry about?

    You can be fitted up even easier with DNA than you can with finger prints!
    Being the most recorded and watched people on planet earth ...must mean that this is the most crime free and safest place on earth to live no? No ...ok.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    especially as the LCN method of DNA profiling has been done with causing miscarriages of justice

    http://www.journalonline.co.uk/article/1003857.aspx

    since with trace amount of DNA any contamination can cause lots of false positives

    DNA profiling, even with the entire country wouldn't solve enough crimes to warrant getting it on pragmatic grounds alone, let alone libertarian grounds since most crimes are done by people they know not strangers, so it's a matter of circumstance not persons
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MattLiverpool wrote: »
    We can? How would someone do that?

    I've never heard of anyone being set up by someone for finger prints and i leave mine everywhere.

    If someone wanted to frame me i doubt they'd try to get my DNA profile from a government building. They'd just root through my bins.

    None of the points made apart from two are valid that i've heard which is.

    Contamination of DNA profiles and people who may/have committed crimes and do not want to be caught.
    Lots of cases of fingerprint setups.
    You place a piece of cellotapte over your print ...on a door handle or mug or whatever and stick the cellotape on a window frame car steering wheel or other scene of crime ...peel the tape away and ...the fingerprint man comes along and finds your print.
    that easy.
    With DNA ...you leave it every where you go ...every person you briefly touch carries your DNA away to places you have never been in your life.
    A bent copper or inteligence agency worker can pick up your DNA almost anywhere and then transfer it to scene of crime.
    That easy.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MattLiverpool wrote: »
    How easy would it be to catch a serial killer too.

    The things you've just mentioned can be done already.
    not with you matt ...these things have been done for years yes ...thats what i'm explaing.
    the powers that be reckon it will be easier to catch a mass murderer or whatever by having everyones DNA ...
    there was a mass murderer in downing street till recently ...he's done a runner got a new job ...no DNA needed he was as good as admitting it in the paPERS EVERYDAY ...BUT STILL HE GOT AWAY WITH IT.OPPS OOPSoopss
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MattLiverpool wrote: »
    If i had my DNA on a database, would there be anything for me to worry about?

    Not today maybe, but laws change.

    Whilst something you do today - like protest against a Govt - is legal that doesn't mean that it will be in ten years time.

    More to the point, if you have never broken the law and don't intend to - why does the Govt need your DNA?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Man Of Kent wrote: »
    Not today maybe, but laws change.

    ?
    MOK! what is up with you ...you can't see further than the end of your nose man!
    What has the law got to do with what you should worry about?
    what about the wotsit seven and whatwhere eight?
    Don't you know nothing about how your streets are policed?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't see that we are talking about different things - I just extend it to "lawful" uses of DNA... those worry me more...
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm uninformed, but this sounds frighteningly orwellian.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MattLiverpool wrote: »
    How easy would it be to catch a serial killer too.

    The things you've just mentioned can be done already.

    they only caught the strangler because he left oen body dry ie he didnt dump of it in a stream ruining the DNA samples

    so depends on how the murders are done


    good detective work works better than blanket sample taking
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont like it, but its going to happen sooner or later reguardless of how many people may not like the idea.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jonny8888 wrote: »
    I dont like it, but its going to happen sooner or later reguardless of how many people may not like the idea.
    If that sort of defeatist attitude is allowed to go unchallenged, then yes, it will happen.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's already happening.
    If your arrested ... even if they realise they have arrested an innocent person they take your DNA. and apolgise and drive you home ...they keep the DNA.
    You modern people realy have no sense of being owned ...like a slave. You seem to think that it's fine for some guys in suits to record everything you say do ...everywhere you go ...random drug tests at work etc ...now it's DNA you don't mind them owning.
    Your owned ...right down to your blood and sweat and think thats fine!
    SLAVES! Mindless slaves at that.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MattLiverpool wrote: »
    It's like, we give our DNA and help police catch murders or we don't just in case the government somehow used it in a bad way.

    They can have the murderer's DNA, but they don't need mine.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Man Of Kent wrote: »
    They can have the murderer's DNA, but they don't need mine.
    To play the devil's advocate, you could one day become a murderer. And if the government had your DNA on a database and you left any trace at the scene of the crime they could pick you up and brought you to justice.

    Though I see where you're coming from. I don't think we can be certain the government wouldn't use the DNA database to track and monitor innocent people.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I could one day become president of the US. But that still doesn't mean that someone can have my DNA now - as an innocent man.

    It's bad enough that I can be arrested, not charged, no evidence of any crime, and have it taken from me. Against my wishes. In any other scenario that is assault.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its nto really a defeatist attitude. I mean look at the iraq war, very few people wanted that to happen, millions went to that big protest thing, but it didnt change anything. Inless you plan to hold a revolution then this DNA database will probably go ahead soon enough.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jonny8888 wrote: »
    , Inless you plan to hold a revolution then this DNA database will probably go ahead soon enough.
    The only chance of it not happening is cost.
    With a bit of luck they will decide it is unafordable but i aint holding my breath.
    When i was a kid all the scary disturbing science fiction stories were about survielance societies ...and here we are. At my age i feel like a time traveller ...i read all this stuff about what the future could hold ...of course it wouldn't happen but here we are and it has.
    It hasn't been forced on us though ...we accept it ...welcome it with open arms even ...or just sleepwalk along and let it be.

    Your humanity is being stolen.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what humanity :P
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jonny8888 wrote: »
    what humanity :P
    Well for those of you without any ...nowt to worry about!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    morrocan roll wrote: »
    The only chance of it not happening is cost.
    With a bit of luck they will decide it is unafordable but i aint holding my breath.
    When i was a kid all the scary disturbing science fiction stories were about survielance societies ...and here we are. At my age i feel like a time traveller ...i read all this stuff about what the future could hold ...of course it wouldn't happen but here we are and it has.
    It hasn't been forced on us though ...we accept it ...welcome it with open arms even ...or just sleepwalk along and let it be.

    Your humanity is being stolen.

    But it's for our own good though. Doesn't the proliferation of CCTV cameras make you feel safer? If we're all on that database some murderer could be caught before he kills you!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You can (probably) trust this government and this police force if you aren't obviously a threat to civilisation (muslim, black, gay, protestor, not able to pay for a TV licence etc)..

    Can you trust every police force and government that might arrive in the future?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I find this rather more disturbing:
    Passenger groups have raised fears that the [Heathrow Terminal 5] security process will take longer and be more intrusive. For the first time at any UK airport, all domestic passengers travelling through T5 will be fingerprinted, slowing down the security process. The move is to prevent domestic passengers travelling on international flights. There is no segregation in the departure lounge between domestic and overseas travellers. Domestic passengers will have to give their fingerprints twice, once on entering the secure area and once at the boarding gate.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/24/britishairwaysbusiness.heathrowterminalfive

    What's wrong with the safe and trusted combination of photo ID + boarding cards?

    Fuck that.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My concerned is not about how long it takes to do it.
Sign In or Register to comment.