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Nationalising Northern Rock and 'human rights'

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
BBC.

I'm stunned and disgusted that the Human Rights Act is even of consideration and relevance.

I don't see any reason why NR should not be nationalised at its current share price. Any investor in the stock market knows its a gamble and that they're risking their money - the value of shares can go up as well as down... If shareholders lose money, tough luck frankly.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't think NR should be nationalised. Think its sets a bad precedent
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BBC.

    I'm stunned and disgusted that the Human Rights Act is even of consideration and relevance.

    I don't see any reason why NR should not be nationalised at its current share price. Any investor in the stock market knows its a gamble and that they're risking their money - the value of shares can go up as well as down... If shareholders lose money, tough luck frankly.

    I agree - but only if they nationalise it and pay the shareholders a fair price. If the Government tries to get it on the cheap they deserve to be screwed...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree - but only if they nationalise it and pay the shareholders a fair price. If the Government tries to get it on the cheap they deserve to be screwed...

    For government - read the taxpayer, which has already bailed out NR with £25 billion. And shareholders should be grateful that the government bailed out NR, if the government had let NR go bust they wouldn't get anything at all... The government should pay what the market thinks NR is worth - i.e. the current share price, I don't see that as an infringement of human rights. (Current share price is 80 something pence and the shareholders will want at least 4 or 5 times more than that).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For government - read the taxpayer, which has already bailed out NR with £25 billion. And shareholders should be grateful that the government bailed out NR, if the government had let NR go bust they wouldn't get anything at all... The government should pay what the market thinks NR is worth - i.e. the current share price, I don't see that as an infringement of human rights. (Current share price is 80 something pence and the shareholders will want at least 4 or 5 times more than that).

    Yep, but nationalisation doesn't work like that, as soon as there's wind of it share prices will fall massively and the Government may well pay under share price.

    At the moment its not going to happen as the Government has to weigh up the loss of confidence in the bank struggling along as currently verse the loss of confidence if the Government has to start nationalising banks (something which didn't even happen in the 70s)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not a good thing but I think it's either nationalisation or let it go bust...it shouldn't be propped up any longer as a private business.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Calvin wrote: »
    Don't think NR should be nationalised. Think its sets a bad precedent

    should be put into administration the only reason the bank is still functioning is due to it's loan supply from the BoE therefore it's an unviable bank so it should be pslit up and sold off, and creditors repaid in assets

    HRA shouldn't apply here since it's a merely financial matter, and the 600 jobs, well you can do a lot with £30billion to the level of hundreds of thousands, like remove all uni top up fees, or give all adults free training courses
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Try as I might, I fail to feel any sympathy for shareholders. They should come last (if at all) in the list of people to consider when deciding in the bank's future.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Try as I might, I fail to feel any sympathy for shareholders. They should come last (if at all) in the list of people to consider when deciding in the bank's future.

    How come? They're the effective owners of the bank, and you're arguing they shouldn't even be considered when making decisions about the bank's future? :eek2:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When it comes to saving thousands of jobs and the lifetime savings of tens of thousands of people, absolutely. Shareholders are little more than speculators and investors. They were fully aware of the risks when they bought their shares. Tough luck.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree. You can't bet on a horse and then ask for your money back when it doesn't come in first. How is buying shares any different? They certainly shouldn't be bailed out, and if anyone's gonna buy the bank, be it the government or a private investor, it should be at the current market value. Tough shit for shareholders I say. Without the government, you wouldn't be getting a penny, so be grateful you're getting anything at all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't care if the bank goes bust and the shareholders loose they're money - that's tough (though extremely unlikely to happen)

    I do care if the Government tries to shaft the shareholders and get the bank cheap.

    If you bet on a horse and it comes last because it's ridden by a useless jacket - that's tough. If you loose your money because someone comes along and smashes the horses kneecaps, that's a different issue.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Human Rights Act is meant to help criminals get an easy life, not help shareholders at a failed bank. But we can put that aside for now. ;)

    I don't give two shits about the shareholders. They invested their money, knowing full well what the risks are. The company's in the shit, and they're there with it. Tough. They should accept whatever they're offered and be grateful. Either that, or they get nothing. And I certainly wouldn't sympathise if that happened.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i agree this has nothing to do with shareholders, the govt won't nationalise this because it sends the wrong message that we/they will bankroll all the dodgy mortgage lenders who have been playing fast and loose. no PE deals going through either atm so looks like we'll just keep pumping money in to keep them afloat....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    How come? They're the effective owners of the bank, and you're arguing they shouldn't even be considered when making decisions about the bank's future? :eek2:

    well consult them whilst they find a way to repay their loans and increase their liquidity without borrowing more from the BoE then

    at the moment they are unable to meet their liabilities, the only reason they aren't in administration is the government loan and securities - if the creditor feels they need some repayment of their loan they have a right to seek assets
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is it possible for northrock to fold? to be no more - what would happen to all our savings if it did
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jaz wrote: »
    Is it possible for northrock to fold? to be no more - what would happen to all our savings if it did

    After causing the panic in the first place Government has guaranteed savings - in the unlikely event it did fold you'd be covered.
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