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ecstasy... the risk in perspective.
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
1000,000 people die each year out of 12,000,000 smokers, i.e. 8,300 per million
25,000 people die each year out of 40 million alcohol drinkers i.e 625 per million
120 people die each year out of 500,000 solvent sniffers i.e 240 per million
7 people die each year out of 1,000,000 ecstasy users i.e 7 per million
These figures were published in 1996 by the Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) and are figures from the US. <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
25,000 people die each year out of 40 million alcohol drinkers i.e 625 per million
120 people die each year out of 500,000 solvent sniffers i.e 240 per million
7 people die each year out of 1,000,000 ecstasy users i.e 7 per million
These figures were published in 1996 by the Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) and are figures from the US. <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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Comments
*looks puzzled*
oh, i get it, its a joke right ?
I mean everyone knows if you drop a pill you will probably die <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
*decides 'skive is an idiot*
<IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
You have to bear in mind there is a wider issue, they probably are aware of these stats, but if they announced pills are to be legalised they lose the next election, before anything happens there has to be a shift in public opinion and thats unlikely till our generation is 'in power' perhaps in 10 years the whole argument will undertake a better perspective <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
alcohol and smoking steadily kills u over years, u drop a pill and usually the death happens a few hours later.
Also legalisation is not the best thing, what if sum1 felt suicidal, they can just walk into a shop and buy 10/20 pills and just eat them all at once, which aint a gud thing.
The only defence I can offer for alcohol, is that it is abused for years before it causes significant damage. By which time, the alcoholic is old - his/her body cannot take much more - so they deteriorate quickly.
E is generally taken by young people, whose bodies are fit enough to survive the effects of E in the short-term. But since there are no long-term studies, we should not jump to conclusions about the safety of E.
The same thing Kentish is it not ? both probably cause long term damage !
depends whether its with regards to deaths, long term damage, short term damage or indirect consequences ! Its impossible to say ecstasy is safer, it kills less, but until good, unbiased studies are carried out its all speculation <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> I would speculate that possibly it is safer, but thats hardly a confident statement <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> only time will tell i guess
Alcohol may kill you more slowly than E but it still kills more of you. 625 killed per million is still a big difference to 7 per million even when the long term effects of ecstasy is not yet known. The thing is people like you Kentish, support the illegality of ecstasy even though the government will not conduct trials to see the real damage it does.
Even i f ecstasy does prove to have long term implications I still reckon drinkers and smokers will have more to worry about.
I knew shit before I started taking ecstasy but once I did and I started understanding the real effecs, the culture, the people who take it etc... I have found that above all proper research needs to be carried out by the governmen, though I doubt that the true results would be puplished.
Why isn't fishing or equestrian sports illegal as they carry more risk than taking Ecstasy.
P.S sorry if some of this makes no sence... I is pissed <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
no more dangerous ( in moderation ) is the key point, yet only one is legal
<IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I would happily see any drug on the streets after these government trials show them to be as safe as therapeutic drugs. <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
But we all know that even alcohol would not pass the clinical trials we have nowadays.
My point is that we shouldn't release even more dangerous chemicals into society when we already have enough chemicals to deal with. And that is exactly what your figures show.
My view is that I agree the government should do some proper rseearch into e before legalising it but even if turns out to be dangerous in the long term, it has along way to go before it reaches the levels of damage caused by alcohol to society.
Im not sayin that because one damaging substance is legal another should be. I am merely pointing out that most people who give us decrimalisation supporters a hard time, are drinkers themselves, who are probably doing more damage to their body's than us ecstasy users. It's the irony that pisses me off.
lol, hardly. was just saying, that's all.
like has probably been said a thousand times before though - i'm sure there's far worse that you could legalise. not that that's a decent arguemnt mind.
what would i know, i'm biased <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
But alcohol can be used without any long term effects at all. It can even be beneficial.
We don't know with ecstacy, so I'm sitting on the fence for now. <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Fair play mate. That's a good attitude and I can't argue with that
I suppose what really pisses me off is that what I do, doesn't hurt anyone else and I can't see how the government justify controlling what I put in my body.
Alcohol even without it's health problems, causes so much disruption itn society, yet is still legal like fags cos it's a good money maker for the government. If they wern't such an earner they'd be illegal. That just takes the piss.
The people I get pissed off with are those who believe that what the government deems safe and dangerous is gospel. All the government is intrested in, is Money and Votes. This government is full of shit. There will come a time when a sensible attidude on drugs will get a govenment into power. Our generation (the chemical generation) will have a lot of power in 10 years or so and it'll make a difference who gets into government trust me.
i take E's and Smoke pot.......
There is one thing that all you PRO LEGALISATION guys forget about your figures...
There are a hell of a lot more people who DRINK & SMOKE TABBACO
than there are who take Ecstacy
only a handfull of people (compared to the drinkers/smokers)
so the figures are bound to say that more poeple DIE from Alcohol/Tabbaco...
i agree about legalising CANNABIS for medical purposes, tho....
because this helps people with pain relife ECT ECT...
To make E's LEGAL would be a big mistake, take a look at Holland,, WHAT a fucked up gaff that is! dont get me wrong i love going there,, but could you imageine LIVING there?
i can, and i would hate it.......
WAKE UP!
[ 09-04-2002: Message edited by: fred ]
I've only just seen this reply. <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Don't tell me to 'wake up' you're the one who's got to open your eyes and think before you speakl! Read the title of this thread again, do you know what perspective actually means?
Now look at my first post. Is it any clearer to you now?
More people drink alcohol so obviously there are going to be more deaths from it, however, you have missed the point completely. It's not about the number of deaths but how likely you are to die if you're a user.
So again, risk of death:
Ecstasy = 7 in per million
Alcohol = 625 per million
WAKE UP! <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I think I will join in, I don't do these debates much more so why not...
I don't believe in Legalisation and I'll be honest that is not a good idea, what I do believe in is decriminalisation. I've said this many a time in the past, I don't like the idea that as (for example) a tax-paying youngster who has a job, doesn't claim from the govenment and has NO previous police convictions and DOESN'T deal could be caught by the police with say 4 pills on him and then be deamed as a dealer pillhead, sent to jail, loose their job and loose all possible chances of a good future with a criminal record... go figure!!
As for the pill vs alcohol debate, how many people here have been to Alcohol rehab? I for one have, I was sent at the tender age of 17, given the week of lectures, given antibuse, had liver and kidney function tests and taught all the dangers of alcohol and personally I came out of there in more of a mind thinking "fuck, alcohol is evil shite, I'm better off with the other stuff".
I remember watching a program on Channel 4 some time back talking about Alcohol being so high in the addictive mark like 'heroin' and how much damage each drink actually does. I also know that the figure which I know is acurate (good detective work skive) also doesn't take into account the amount of injury/violent crime commited each week which is alcohol/ecstasy related and I for one, as many other people will quickly agree, which will be the higher culprit by many thousand each week..
I'll take another example of one of my friends, a then 17 yr old who was a real pain in the arse, he had a criminal record from violent offences (all caused while on alcohol) and he discovered ecstasy and I'll be truthful he has since (and hes now almost 20) not been in trouble with the police or involved in violent fights or anything how he used to.
I'm not saying that ecstasy is the sweetest thing you could have. I have been violently ill off it and even spent a week in hospital and I have known a friend of a friend who indeed did die off the stuff. But if you put the risk into perspective then its a darn sight safer.
I'll tell you a bit about Ecstasy, it causes the brain to release its reservations of seritonie (sp?) at a large amount by bridging the gap of the receptors, you have feelings of love, unity, energy and closeness to those around you. It is an anti-duretic (inhibits you to urinate) and usually the effects last anything from 1 to 4 hours... this is then depentent of what is actually in the pill as the MDMA (Methodioymethamphetamine) family has many variations such as MDA, MDEA... Pills come in batches with various logos on, these do not depict quality although many people will refer to batches in this way. Pills often contain other by-products such as Amphetamine (speed - cause its cheap and gives a rush feeling), Glucose, 2CT7, Ketamine, Filler Agent, Asprin (thins the blood so making your blood pressure higher so you rush.. clever and cheap) and various other chemicals... the common misconception of them putting in brick dust or cement is rubbish in 95% of all cases, after all they are trying to market and get returns on a product, its not goint to sell if it a) doesn't do anything, or b) kills everyone...
Deaths and Ecstasy then, these are rare as previously mentioned, there are a very, very, very small percentage (ie. 1 in every million) who will die from first time use due to being alergic to the drug in the same way as people can have alergic reactions due to taking Asprin. The main preportion of deaths are caused by things done when people panic ie. intercranial pressure (caused when drinking too much) or dehydration.. or and more commonly people taking a coctail of drugs along with the pill and overdosing (such as GHB, Speed, Alcohol etc.) and a lot of these deaths could be avoided by a govenment wide method of education, but no.. that would be seen as being tolerative so being the caring govenment they'd rather we just keep dying so they can publish their figures... One reason for many of these deaths as well is overheated clubs, lack of cold water in the toilets and no 'chillout' or outdoor passes from clubs.
Long term effects of Ecstasy, these are yet still unknown but its becoming increasingly familiar amongst doctors that these may be very few and far between cause like Skive said, this drug has been around for many years and wide spread use since 1987 onward.
I am a firm believer that the risk isn't as high as is made out, but I am in a position to speak about it in regards to alcohol cause I've seen and been in the bad corner with both drugs as have several members on this site. I believe that we as a country have a real lack of drugs education and a crap government stance on drugs thinking that "we will beat them", I think we need to spend more money on education/rehabilitation that inprisioning every cat, dog and mouse.
What I can say about all my experiences is that drugs have taught me a lot about the kind of person I am, they have made me more open minded and have made me learn myself better than anything so far. But like all things they can be abused and there is a fine line between recreation and drug abuse.
[ 10-04-2002: Message edited by: Justin Credible ]
Sorry, correct that to "been connected to some quite nasty mental illness's".
Additionall most people that die from smoking or alcohol are older, 40+ or 50+.
How many people that age do you know that take E regularly? Or been taking it all their lives like the drinkers and smokers have?
Having said that, i think it should be decriminalised, because i don't think the gov should be able to tell me what i can and cannot do in my recreational time. Afterall, even if it kills me I wont be hurting anybody else. I guess the trouble is some-body's going to have the idea that driving on E is an easily doable activity . . .
Now Mescalin. That should not only be legel, but should become part of the school sylabus.
there is no evidence suggest it is anyway <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
When it comes down to it, what right have the government to tell me what I can an can not put in my body. I'm confident that I know enough about this drug to make a decision on whether or not I want to take the risk.
I'm not saying that ecstasy is totally safe but I believe that I should have a right to take something that is obviously less damaging than one of the most commonly used drugs in the world.
Decriminalistion and education is with out a doubt the way forward.
your right.. just bleach and laundry soap... and who knows whats else they use for fillers
Plus places like clubs would get less in trouble for it if pills were legal, they wudnt really have to do searches.
But i dunno, if it becomes legal it becomes easier to get hold of, and if thats the case people will abuse the drug. I dont like to see drugs being abused coz the person ruins it for themselves.
The majority of people are not educated on drugs and so therefore if they dont understand what it does to u they will go off and abuse E which can be a very bad thing.
That why i sort of agreed with a post eb made a few weeks ago. Why not have sum sort of drugs card/id which states that u know the drug and u can use it safely. U have to pass a drugs exam or summit to get this card and if u do then ur deemed to have the knowledge to use the drug safely and wisely
Shaun Ryder- Poster child for pill abuse
Ozzy Osbourne- Poster child for alcohol abuse
Liza Minelli- Poster child for coke/anti
depressants abuse
Take your pick.........................!!
mate, i couldn't pick just one bit to quote, i agree with what you say whole-heartedly.
the issue is about money when it comes to the governement. the guv will spend on war because it gives them power; the governement makes more money under-handedly from the blackmarket and legalisation would be too much of a financial risk for them. sad, but true. capital is unfortuanately what western civilsation is built on. i could spout on forever about the corruption that's in power ( stand up Dubya...)but this is a drugs board and thinking about it just boils my blood. i think i'll stick to your advice and keep on keepin' on, with a big fat grin on my face!!!