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US to demand visas for visiting Britons- if they're the wrong colour
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,2070680,00.htmlThe American government wants to impose travel restrictions on British citizens of Pakistani origin because of concerns about terrorism, according to a report today.
In talks with the British government, the US homeland security secretary, Michael Chertoff, called for British Pakistanis to apply for a visa before travelling to the US, according to the New York Times.
This is fucking unbelievable.
Perhaps we should start demanding visas of Americans from Southern States or who vote Republican... seeing as they're bound to be gun-toting violent loons.
Twats :rolleyes:
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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yes wrong colour indeed.
'Ethnicity' if you like. The point remains the same.
How do they decide which British Citizens are "of Pakistani origin?" If it is done on census data regarding ethnicity, that is racist.
However, if it is British Citizens who were born in Pakistan, or who emigrated to Britain from Pakistan (i.e. held Pakistani citizenship) then I don't think that is racist.
To be honest if this is true all it would be doing is formalizing the obvious racial profiling/racism that goes on in the US anyway (and in most other countries). And it doesn't effect my views/policy towards the US. Their entry requirements are draconian, their border security obnoxious; and I'm never going to visit the place until they stop acting like arseholes.
Well let's say it was India instead of Pakistan .. that would mean people like Cliff Richard would need a VISA to go to the USA cos he was born in India - all getting a bit out of hand
Thats whats unclear from the article.
Actually I think minimi makes a good point. It isn't a skin color issue, it's and issue of national origin. Doesn't make it a good idea, but it isn't like their saying anyone with skin darker than kaki needs extra id.
Not stereotyping the American people - I know loadsa great americans - just on the whole american governments are pretty fascist and laissez-faire. Pretty much forget the poor and every man for themself.
even the democrats of america are right-wing IMO
Yep, that's pretty much my view on it. Never visiting it while it's like this.
And Britain has a large Muslim population. British Muslims have already carried out terrorist attacks in Britain and Israel.
The vast majority of Muslims do not pose any terrorist threat, although a worrying minority sympathise with extremism and of that minority only a small number pose any actual terrorist threat.
But, that small number is still more than a mere handful ? a couple of hundred people, perhaps even a couple of thousand (the police are indeed monitoring thousands).
Excluding only certain 'higher' risk categories of British citizens (i.e. those of Pakistani background) from the visa-waiver programme is not a good idea. It's easily labelled as discriminatory and it does create unnecessary hassle for lots of ordinary and perfectly innocent people who have done absolutely nothing wrong. More than anything it assumes the terrorist threat comes solely from British Pakistani Muslim extremists. (White converts have been involved in various plots...)
But the US would be reluctant to exclude all British citizens from the visa-waiver programme; Florida would complain very loudly, it's tourist industry would be severely hurt. And it would be very regrettable for the state of the special relationship if British citizens were excluded from the visa-waiver programme whilst French, German, Irish, etc citizens were not. Unfortunately until the UK's domestic Muslim terrorist threat is eradicated I fear excluding UK citizens from the visa-waiver programme will be deemed necessary by the US...and looking at it from their side of the pond I'm inclined to agree.
If you think that despite statistics it is completely wrong to discriminate against people because of their ethnic background, tell me how the US government's proposal is any different.
We got bombed by four British Asians. Should the government start scanning any Asians who walk into the tube network or jump on a bus?
It's unfair discrimination, a kneejerk reaction and stereotyping that borders on racism. And a rather worrying slippery slope. We should treasure equality and freedom even if from time to time a few individuals are out to hurt us. That's what you and others have said on many occasions when discussing this government wanting to introduce various draconian measures to combat terrorism anyway.
Either that, or make sure you bring some lube with you.
Why dont they stop Irish people too, after all a "sympathetic minority" of them support terrorists too.:rolleyes:
Its a rascist skin colour policy from President Bush.
Because if they were to stop IRA supporters getting in, they'd have to chuck out quite a few of their own population too.
And I don't think, in itself, excluding high risk groups from the visa waiver programme is racist. (Although, I don't think it's a particularly well thought out policy, excluding all British citizens is unfortunately the only feasible option).
Quite different. The IRA hasn't really ever posed any terrorist to the USA. And Britain could not have really justified any restrictions on Irish Americans, they never posed any significant direct terrorist threat. (Chucking a few dollars in a collection basket going around a Boston bar is quite different to carrying out a suicide bomb - as two British citizens did in Israel). And anyway talk about Irish people and terrorism is thankfully pretty irrelevant these days. People can harp on about the IRA but the terrorist threat to Britain (and America, and Israel, and much of Europe) these days comes from Muslim extremists.
(Also worth pointing out how whilst Irish American support for the IRA existed, and still does exist, it does seem to be quite often exaggerated .. and other sources of IRA support completely ignored).
My guess is that your answer would be 'no'. Because it is wrong to single out people of a certain ethnic background, colour and religion even if there is a higher than average percentage of a certain crime commited by some of them.
I really don't see any difference between the above scenario and the US government's proposal. Do you?
hmm, tough choice :chin: brazil it is then.
I think I've made it clear that I do not support the proposals of the US homeland security secretary. And of course the answer is no.
Do I see a difference to the proposal of the US homeland security secretary? To some extent, yes.
I cannot really see much point in stopping an 84 year old black woman at airport security; rigorously rifling through all of her possessions (in addition to the X-ray scan of baggage), demanding she remove her shoes and treating a bottle of lucozade like a suspect package. Yet that was the recent experience of my neighbour at Heathrow. But, at the same time applying such a thorough check to a young, single, male seems more justifiable - that after all being the typical profile of a terrorist. There's nothing at all racist in recognising that an elderly woman or parents with four kids going to Spain are statistically a lot less likely to pose a threat. What the US homeland security sec proposes of course goes further than that - and it's not something I support.
I think it's a bad idea tbh and it's clumsy to even suggest it; it's an unworkable idea and ignores the notable number of extremist terror suspects who have been converts, many white converts. If the US recognising the problem Britain has with terrorists holding British passports, wants to tighten its borders they will have to exclude all British citizens from the visa waiver programme. This kind of half-way step would be discriminatory, probably not effectively reduce any risk and only foster ill feeling towards the US...but I guess going the whole way would be a real blow to the US tourist industry and the special relationship. (Although, if British citizens succeed in unleashing a suicide bomb in the States - as two did in Israel, I think that would be an even bigger blow).
You totally should. They are clinically insane.
click
If a terrorist cell based in the UK was planning to attack America and they knew that Pakistanis would have extra problems getting in, surely they would simply recruit wannabe suicide bombers of other nationaities?
Weren't the 21/7 wannabe bombers Somali, and other ones have been black and white converts. Shortsighted and just likely to increase some people's hatred towards the US.