Charged with GBH Section 20 - plz help

Former Member · April 2007

Hi, I saw Paul50's post on this website and saw loads of people had responded so, after 4 months, i've deceided to pluck up the courage to post something!

I was 19 at the time (20 now), after a night out (i wasn't drunk when the 'thing' happend, as i don't really ever get drunk, strange, but true), an arguement broke out at the front of my house with two men (30 + 40 yrs old). About 10 mins before it happend i was inside arguing with my girlfriend, after the arguement she went to sit on the door step to have a fag, after about two minutes i went to say sorry to my girlfriend, and 2 seconds before that, the two men had stoped in front of my house (they were walking home from a night out) and asked my girlfriend if she was ok (in thier police statements they said they had been drinking all day,so were drunk). When i opened the door i could only see one man, and he just stood there staring at me,i said 'yes mate?', he said something like 'just asking your girlfriend if shes ok', then i just told him to 'f*** off'.After several 'f*** off's back and forth between us, a second man joined the first at the front of my house and joined in the arguement.At that point i was thinking that these two big blokes were going to batter me.

This next part is the biggest regret of my entire life.

After about a minute of arguing (i can't be more presise than 1 minute), i thought to myself that i wanted to scare these two blokes the way they were scareing me, and stupidly said 'if you don't f*** off im going to go and get a knife', worse still, i actualy went and got it and came back outside.

I can only imagine what you must be thinking now! Especialy with all the stabbings in the news at the moment.Please please don't cast your judgement yet thought until you've read everything!

The whole night is an entire blur for me from this point on, it's only from reading the police statements that i can piece it together.

It's hard to belive that i didn't intend to use the knife, but i know 110% that i never would of used it on purpose in a million years.

As i came back outside, i walked 2/3 paces, then one of them either hit me or jumped on me from the side. From that point i remember geting hit a few more times on the floor, then i'm running away!One witness (that the police aren't using, because they can choose not to and it slightly favours me) said that one attacked me from the side, knocked me to the ground, then both of them we're 'giving him a kicking' as he put it. After a few minutes my girlfriend had shouted at a passer by to help. He saw me getting a kicking and pulled ONE man off me, this man then started on the passer by and my girlfriend, then kicked me in the back of the head. The other man was laying on the path holding his wrist where the knife had cut him!

I then ran away as i thought the man who kicked me in the head, had the knife, and was going to stab me! It was when i was running away, i turned around to see the other man laying on the floor, and straight away knew something had happend to him.

I ran into somebodys back garden and after what seemed like 10minutes to me, but was actually over an hour , i walked back to my house where a police man was stood and said 'i think i've stabbed somebody'.

The bloke who kicked me in the back of the head, didn't even realise he had been stabbed until about 20mins later when he was sat in the ambulance with his mate.

One had cut an artery in his wrist, the other had a small piercing to his palm and a stab wound to the abdomen, requiring three stitches.

I was charged with section 18 GBH with intent, but it has now been droped to a section 20 GBH.

Before all of this i had a really good job in a bank,and was just about to start training to be a mortgage advisor,i had just moved in with my girlfriend and we were talking about saving for our own house,basicly i was normal and my life, to me, was perfect. i wasnt one of these kid's that go around carrying knifes and stabbing people, or a binge drinker (i drink less than once a month), or someone claiming benefits or anything like that! I have one caution over a year ago for hitting someone ( i caught my girlfriend in bed with one of my friends and hit him, and i think most people would of done the same)

I've ruined my life with one stupid moment of madness.I've lost my job because i was signed off so long with depression, due to whats happening.I'm arguing everyday with my girlfriend, yet she's still sticking with me.I've stopped seeing my friends as much.My life has gone from perfect to my worse nightmare!

Just to add, i went to crown court, and about 10 minutes before i was due to go in and plead guilty, the prossocution rejected my guilty plea, due to the fact that i said, that it was my fault, but, the men did attack me first (maybe giving me a leaner sententance with the judge).The prossocution rejected this, so unless i droped 'they attacked me 1st', i had to plea not guilty! My next door neighbour said in his statement (to cut it short), that they attacked me 1st. Yet the police are choosing to not use him as a witness (i am though), my barrister says that they can 'pick and choose' who they use and don't use.

Im now sat here, awaiting trial.

I've tried my best to describe everything i possibly can of that night, and i really don't know what to expect now! Nearly every day i've search websites looking at any posts that are similiar!I'm so scared. About prison. About loosing my girlfriend. About my mum, little brother and step dad. About my friends forgetting about me. About life after prison, and what sort of career am i going to have.....none!The past 4 months have been a complete daze, some days im ok dealing with it, others it's hell.

I really don't know what to say now, after writing all that it's bought it all back! I know i'm an idot for what i've done. I just hope, from seeing Paul50's post, that people could, i dunno, give me advise? help me?

Thank you for reading this, i know it's hard to think of me as a good person, but before this, i honestly was!Im sorry i've wrote so much, i just needed to get it all out!Thank you again

Former Member · April 2007

Hi Soulwax, I have just read your post and to be honest I actually have tears in my eyes! We are all guilty of making mistakes and obviously this is a big mistake in your life, it sounds like you have a very strong relationship with your girlfriend, she has stuck by you at what appears to be a very difficult situation and with this much stress and pressure it would put a strain on any relationship. This stress is obviously where the arguements are stemming from.

It sounds to me that you feel very alone and perhaps if you could deal with you stresses better (as best as possible at a time like this!) you would find the arguements may lessen. Perhaps you would benefit from talking to a councellor to help you work things through in your own mind and doing some sort of exercise might help with the tension. I would expect that the uncertainty of your future is probably exhasperating the situation as well, change of any type is scary and exhausting and over the past year you said your life as gone from near on perfect to the complete opposite! You have been through a traumatic experience and although what you did was not neccessarily the right thing to do, you still have every right to have dreams, aspirations and a good future, you are still young, you can still make them happen despite your mistakes!

I know that its not going to be easy but you have to believe that things will get better. Your girlfriend has stuck by you this far, I don't think she's going to be leaving you in a hurry, but if you keep worrying that she might this will surely affect your relationship and could cause things to go wrong. Just enjoy being with her and spending time together. You didn't say anything about how your family have reacted which suggests to me that they are supporting you as well, they are there to help you so let them! As for friends, they unfortunately do come and go whether you are in prison or not, this is just what happens in life, so stop worrying about that!

I'm not sure if this will make you feel any better, but I hope it does!

Former Member · April 2007

thank you pink angel for being so nice 2 me.what you've said has made sense, especialy about my girlfriend! just from reading that, i've got more hope for the future than i have had these past 4 months!Thank you again x

Former Member · April 2007

Just reading your post about what happened and feel bad for ya. I know what you're going through and so much of what you said makes sense to me. You seemed jsut to be doing what anybody would do. Can't believe they wanted to charge you with Section 20.

Definitely do what you can to stick with your girlfriend. I split up with mine and I really could do with her now. Her sticking with you through this is a good thing but she should after what you said what happened.

When people hear what we've been charged with they do think the worse of you but it's not always right.

I might PM you if you want.

Former Member · April 2007

hi soulwax60,

After reading your story its pretty obvious you didn't intend to do that to them. Try to keep calm and clear you mind as much as you can whilest you await trial.

Holdl onto your girlfriend and let her know how thankful lyou are shes stayed with you. She seems like a really good person for that in my eyes.

Good luck with your trial, i hope you do ok. let us know what happens.

Former Member · April 2007

I don't think you are guilty of GBH, it's self defence surely?? They were on your property, you told them to go, they wouldn't are were threatening you, you tried to scare them off with a knife (mistake, but we all make them) then you were attacked.

What's your solicitor said? Sorry to hear about everything that's happened, but you should be ok. I mean in order to convict you they need good evidence and you've got an eyewitness who can testify that you were defending yourself, and your girlfriend, it wasn't like you ran up to them in the street since it was on your own doorstep when they wouldn't leave.

Madness isnt it? Best of luck, get a good solicitor who can advise you properly though.

Former Member · April 2007

Thank you to everybody who's posted on here! Because everyone's been so nice and understanding it's given me hope that atleast some of the jury might be the same!

ShyBoy - when it first happened i was completely honest to the police and said i can't remember what happened from the moment they hit me, and because of that i can't claim self defence. I know though that even if i knew what was going on at the time, i would of never used the knife to fight them off as i wouldn't of dared, incase they were seriously hurt!

Paul50 - if you wanna chat on msn mate let me know

Again, thanks for everyones support! You've given me hope and made me realise how amazing my girlfriend has been through all of this, and that i've got to try my hardest to stay together!

Former Member · April 2007

Not really a good idea to put your email up on a public forum.

Former Member · April 2007

Or at least break the link, because spambots will find it and munch it up otherwise. just replace the @ symbol with a space then type 'at'.

Former Member · April 2007

thanks for the tip guys, get enough spam already!

Former Member · April 2007

Mate, would be good to chat whenever. Left you a PM with my hotmail stuff.

Paul

Former Member · April 2007

not got too much to say but it just goes to show how fucked up the law is in this stupid place

you should be able to defend yourself on your own property, knife or no knife

Former Member · April 2007

I thought the law changed as to regards of defending your property I thought you could use force if it is necessary?

Sad to see what's happening though, the police and court seem to be trying to screw you over, whats your brief like, any good?

I think the main thing to do is keep your head up high and take each day as it comes, try not to think badly.

Oh and I didn't think an employer could sack you if your off sick?

Former Member · April 2007

I do apologise if these sound like daft questions, but your post is very poweful and I'm genuinely interested in the hows and whys of these situations.

Did you feel before you got the knife that you were in danger or were you just angry and reckoned that would shit them up? Was it a sudden frenzy of anger? Could you and your girl have just walked away safely?

What sort of sentence could you be facing does your brief reckon if you get found guilty? On the internet it says:

Wounding or inflicting Grievous Bodily Harm (GBH) Section 20

Arrestable offence
Five years imprisonment in indictment; six months imprisonment and/or fine summarily

It is an offence to unlawfully and maliciously to wound OR inflict Grievous Bodily Harm with or without a weapon on any other person.

Instances that amount to a charge of Wounding or inflicting GBH include permanent disability, broken bones, substantial loss of blood.

Your case is nothing like the sort of crime where people for no reason commmit a violent act on another that causes anything like "permanent disability", and even in those cases the maximum sentence isn't that common. Prisons are overcrowded and the courts aren't QUITE as stupid as the press would have us believe when they report random strnage verdicts. Putting people in prison is a last resort and only done if it is the only possible option; ie to keep a person away from society who they are deemed a danger to, or because they have repeatedly failed to reform despite previous leniancy and understanding. Your first offence has to be very serious for prison to be considered if it is a crime where there are lesser alternatives. Apologies if I'm stating the obvious here.

I can't believe it's an open and shut case. First of all, I'm astounded you done for hitting the bloke you caught with your girl. That's surely extenuating circumstances? If it is reported (what a sad man he must have been, or didn't he realise she was attached to one of his pals?) ok they have to give you a caution, which basically is no punishment but don't do it again; that's to cover themselves in case you happen to be someone who fancies hitting a few more people and they've not realised. Either way, I'm fairly certain this doesn't have to be brought up in court: i assume you have a brief sorting this kind of thing out? But there was a change in the law about being able to automatically bring up the accused's past criminal history.

Secondly, character refernces, previous lack of criminal record and so on, surely points to you having a good case for being scared becase you weren't used to violent confrontation, or very incensed at their behaviour, got a knife to try and scare them away, then were attacked and in the scuffle they got injured. The law allows you reasonable force to defend yourself, and since you were outnumbered and they struck the first blow rather than backing off, you are far from sunk mate.

Still, maybe I've misinterpreted things, what does your legal advice say?

It's damned scary because if I was in danger of physical harm, if I couldn't escape I'd grab a weapon and by the looks of it the law wouldn't be very sympathetic.

I seriously don't think you are looking at prison mate, although I can imagine you are so stressed you can't be reassured from fearing the worst.

Former Member · October 2009

how ya doin mate im in a similar situation, i have a trail a week today for gbh setion 20 and possesion of a knife, i have a girlfriend who i love very much, im doin a college course in plumbing and i have no previous convictions ever!
wot sentence am i looking at if found guilty?
i know axactly wot your goin through mate

Former Member · October 2009

j woodmore wrote: »

i have no previous convictions ever!
wot sentence am i looking at if found guilty?
i know axactly wot your goin through mate

Firstly, you've dragged up a post that is 2 years dead.

Secondly, if you've no previous convictions for anything, what are you going assaulting people and carrying a knife......

If you're found guilty then you're looking at possible terms of 5 years for the knife and a maximum of 5 years for the GBH.

Former Member · February 2010

This thread is very high up on google when searching for the names of certain criminal offences, so I thought I would answer somewhat for others who find it.

I know a good number of people who have been convicted of both section 18 and section 20 GBH, including a couple where the behaviour of the victims is objectionable or highly dubious, as is the case in this thread.

One person I know was convicted of a section 18 (more serious) GBH. The "victim" was using threatening behaviour and the "assailant" did have reasonable fear of violence, however his reaction was over the top with extreme violence, causing severely disfiguring injuries with reckless regard for if the "victim" died or not using a weapon available from the local environment.

He had a prior caution for a non-violent offence and no convictions. He served 8 months in mail (guilty plea and good behaviour in jail). The sentence was significantly longer, I think it was 2 or 3 years.

In a case of section 20 GBH the "assailant" and "victim" were both intoxicated and conducting themselves badly and aggressively. The "assailant" suddenly attacked the "victim" with a weapon (admittedly by the assailant for no apparent reason) and the "victim" defended themselves until the fight was broken up by police. Both parties had substantial injuries, though the "victims" injuries were more severe. Both had prior convictions, but only the "assailant" for violence offences.

The "assailant" served 7 months in jail (a guilty plea in exchange for reducing to section 20 from section 18). Again the sentence was for 2 or 3 years.

Hope this helps, as you can see if the victim of an offence has some role to play or even was just conducting themselves poorly without provoking an attack, you may well get off with a fairly short sentence.

Charged with GBH Section 20 - plz help

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