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Inspired by ShyBoy's thread - Freedom

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
What is your definition of freedom?

How far should we go until our freedoms are to be restricted?

What do you see as the most important positive rights to have?

And negative rights?

Are we as human beings "doomed to be free"?

Just a note: Positive rights are the "right to" something, for example the "right to vote"... Negative rights are more "the right to not be..." for example "the right to not be tortured"(subjected the the action of another human being)... And please, don't make this another smoking thread. :p

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Freedom literally I think as an abstract concept is a balloon not tied down. By tying it down, you are removing it's freedom. The same applies to human freedom. By restricting what we can do, you are removing our freedom.

    How far should we go until our freedoms are restriction? I'm not sure what you mean here.

    I think the most important right we should be able to have, is the right to leave (society). We are ultimately (mostly) British citizens, and it's not easy to stop being one.

    Negative right - the right not to be forced to do something. For example, being forced to talk when the police arrest you, being forced to join the army in times of need, etc. etc. by all means the state shouldn't bale you out if you dont work, you should starve your sorry arse if you're too lazy to get a job (a disability is an exception), but I don't think the state should be able to say 'You, Mr. John Smith, have been trained as an engineer, so therefore we will assign you to be an engineer in portsmouth. Pack your stuff.'.

    I think we're doomed to not be free, in a way. If we do something that exceeds certain boundaries then we face terrible consequences. But then, that's like saying you're free to jump off a cliff - but you wouldn't do it cos you'd die. So you're not really free. But if you think about it, you are, that's just a consequence of your free will. Headache :banghead:

    I can't remember what film it was but someone said 'you were born free' which I thought was lovely. Even if we feel like slaves, nobody can stop you thinking what you want, and doing what you want - even if it gets you killed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    freedom to do what you want, as long as you dont lie about what you're doing or have it involve violence, even then if the parties involve give their consent, then sure in regards to violence
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True freedom is the freedom to accept the consequences of what you do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The freedom to choose and to form your own life as long as it does not impede other's freedom.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's one of those irregular verbs isn't it?

    I should be free to do what I want

    You should be free to do what you want as long as I agree

    They shouldn't be allowed to do that


    The problem is that people's idea of freedom conflict - should I be free to smoke in a pub or free to have a drink without risking axphysiation? Should gays be free to go to a Christian run B&B or should the owners freedom of conscience trump it? What about foxhunting? - some of the biggest advocates of freedom seem to leave the belief in people being able to do what they want at the door when this is mentioned...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As Captain Flasheart says ideas about freedom conflict, usually around there "freedom to" and "freedom from" areas.

    Generally, I think we get it about right, but that isn't to say that we couldn't do better - especially when it comes to Govt interference on things like ID and free speech.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    my my P+D is getting quite philosophical these days.....true freedom is impossible in a civilised society because we all have to get along, i'd settle for less interference from the state and more choice where to spend my money. i think in this day and age freedom of speech is perhaps one of the more important ones, sadly disappearing down the loo faster than you can say 'governments are the biggest terrorists of ....'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As Captain Flasheart says ideas about freedom conflict, usually around there "freedom to" and "freedom from" areas.

    Generally, I think we get it about right, but that isn't to say that we couldn't do better - especially when it comes to Govt interference on things like ID and free speech.
    Well there are one or two major areas where we fail spectacularly. The main ones being drugs, euthanasia and until recently certain sexual conducts.

    That a person could be incarcerated for choosing to take recreational substances is simply one of the most outrageous, disgraceful and ridiculous actions in human history. One day (whether it is in 50 years or 500) mankind will look back and be speechless at the thought of people being punished for choosing to take drugs. It's a fucking disgrace of indescribable proportions and I really believe anyone who thinks otherwise has some kind of mental illness.

    People not being able to willingly and voluntarily arrange for their own deaths through assisted suicide or euthanasia is also breathtakingly stupid and intolerable. As is any law attempting to regulate what consenting adults can and cannot do in bed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Well there are one or two major areas where we fail spectacularly. The main ones being drugs, euthanasia and until recently certain sexual conducts.

    That a person could be incarcerated for choosing to take recreational substances is simply one of the most outrageous, disgraceful and ridiculous actions in human history. One day (whether it is in 50 years or 500) mankind will look back and be speechless at the thought of people being punished for choosing to take drugs. It's a fucking disgrace of indescribable proportions and I really believe anyone who thinks otherwise has some kind of mental illness.

    People not being able to willingly and voluntarily arrange for their own deaths through assisted suicide or euthanasia is also breathtakingly stupid and intolerable. As is any law attempting to regulate what consenting adults can and cannot do in bed.
    Btw I love your avatar. Where do you get funny avatars from?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Image google 'ceiling cat' for the full size version :D

    I usually find an image I like and use photoshop to reduce it to size.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Ahahaha. Cat pictures are best.

    Anyway. Freedom is when you are not physically constrained, as Hume might say.

    HOWEVER. I believe you should be punished for doing alot of things, so as to be "not allowed" to do them. I also believe some things we should be free to do, and I don't have a problem with our actions being monitored to make sure we don't step out of line. I believe that society should be such as, that anyone could know anything about you, and not pass judgement on it.

    However, society has become rather secular and indeed, rather shy about certain things, and this is rather frustrating. It holds us back alot. Why should there be certain things that are "not discussed" or hidden away and not known about? It's like being in the fucking Victorian ages again.

    Anyway. Freedoms? We should be free to do mostly as we like, as long as another beings freedom is not affected, or indeed, they are not affected, in an adverse way. Note - another being. Not just a human. That means no beastiality, folks, ok?

    Also, one should be free for euthanasia too, I agree with this. Also, the death penalty for certain crimes. And, I think, in cases of mental illness, we should bring back assylums - it is better both for the patient, as it causes them far less distress, and for society, than care in the community. These people used to live in assylums for a reason - they can't cope with day to day life. They were happier in assylums ffs.

    Stupid cost cutting - it didn't even work - they end up paying more now thanks to problems caused.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    That a person could be incarcerated for choosing to take recreational substances is simply one of the most outrageous, disgraceful and ridiculous actions in human history. One day (whether it is in 50 years or 500) mankind will look back and be speechless at the thought of people being punished for choosing to take drugs. It's a fucking disgrace of indescribable proportions and I really believe anyone who thinks otherwise has some kind of mental illness.

    :thumb: :thumb:
    Aladdin wrote:
    People not being able to willingly and voluntarily arrange for their own deaths through assisted suicide or euthanasia is also breathtakingly stupid and intolerable. As is any law attempting to regulate what consenting adults can and cannot do in bed.

    Would you limit that to the bed ?

    If so, why ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    :thumb: :thumb:



    Would you limit that to the bed ?

    If so, why ?
    Well I was mainly talking to sexual behaviour in general, which is (or at least used to be until recently here, and still is in much of the world) one major area where people have little freedom.

    If you ask me whether I believe a person should have a right to do absolutely anything I would tell you no, not absolutely anything. Nobody should have the "freedom" to stick dynamite to a dog and blowing it up because it amuses them, to name one instance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    That a person could be incarcerated for choosing to take recreational substances is simply one of the most outrageous, disgraceful and ridiculous actions in human history. One day (whether it is in 50 years or 500) mankind will look back and be speechless at the thought of people being punished for choosing to take drugs. It's a fucking disgrace of indescribable proportions and I really believe anyone who thinks otherwise has some kind of mental illness.

    People not being able to willingly and voluntarily arrange for their own deaths through assisted suicide or euthanasia is also breathtakingly stupid and intolerable. As is any law attempting to regulate what consenting adults can and cannot do in bed.
    Boy, that's very harsh. You know, people can disagree with you and still be perfectly sound. ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But it is though, isn't it?

    If you think carefully about it, the concept that you should be punished by others for deciding to ingest a substance that is going to give you pleasure is one of the most outrageous mankind has ever come up with. Anyone who believes in that must have some kind of brain malfunction.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Freedom is being free from restraint. Period.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    ihateluton wrote:
    Freedom is being free from restraint. Period.

    In the litteral sense.

    I disagree. Also, go away Hume, you are dead!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ihateluton wrote:
    Freedom is being free from restraint. Period.

    That's a negative freedom. There are also positive freedoms, such as the freedom to do stuff.
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