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Bastards

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
in Politics & Debate
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,200-2467531_2,00.html

:grump:

Allowing differing duties goes against the idea of a common market, which i thought was the point of European integration and the existance of an EU court to facilitate freer trade by enforcing EU wide policy and standards.

The article mentions mail order imports could damage local business, but if duties were harmonised they wouldn't damage businesses anymore than UK based mail order would; harmonised duties would even allow UK companies to compete on the continent.

Should duties on alcohol and tobacco within the EU be harmonised?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If we didn't pay exorbidant tax on cigs and alcohol, we'd pay it from income tax or something else.

    I'd be quite happy for the overall tax burden to go down, but as it isn't I'd prefer to be taxed on socially bad consumer choices than on my salary.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As nice as it would be if we could pay Greek prices on cigarettes and alcohol the loss of revenue for the Treasury would be enormous, and as has been said, we would merely be taxed the same amount in another way. (Furthermore, in Britain tobacco duties presently far exceed the cost of treating smokers – admittedly, we could pay Greek prices and that would probably still be the case, but nonetheless, if this ruling had gone the other way you can bet that the anti-smokers would have used it to push for smokers being made to pay even more for NHS treatment).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Flashman's Ghost wrote:
    If we didn't pay exorbidant tax on cigs and alcohol, we'd pay it from income tax or something else.

    Exactly. £16billion has to come from somewhere and as smokers and drinkers require no where near that amount to be 'fixed' by the NHS, the surplus means that they are an easy pocket to fleece ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote:
    Should duties on alcohol and tobacco within the EU be harmonised?

    0% is harmonious with me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Flashman's Ghost wrote:
    If we didn't pay exorbidant tax on cigs and alcohol, we'd pay it from income tax or something else.

    There is the argument, of course, that if tax was lowered to French levels then the UK treasury wouldn't see £3.5bn of tax revenue float away on a SeaCat to Calais; if UK tax levels were lower than France, then we'd get the extra people coming to us for their cigs and booze, and we'd make more money.

    I happen to think that if UK taxation was lowered to French levels then we'd see an increase in taxation obtained from tobacco and alcohol- not only would it make people buy cigs and booze in the UK rather than abroad, it would cut out the bootleggers, so more UK trade would go through legitimate tills, raising tax income.

    The highest tax rates don't necessarily proudce the highest tax yields- Thatcher proved that when she lowered the income tax rate to 40%, and the income tax revenue increased as the wealthy stopped moving their money to Bermuda.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not that many people bother with booze cruises though. For folk who don't live in the South East or East Coast the trip across the Channel is not so attractive or rewarding. I don't think the extra money the government would make from those who no longer went on booze cruises would be near enough to cancel out the loss of reveune.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Cigarettes too aren't that much cheaper in France; about 5 euros a pack. It used to be a lot cheaper. (Although, I think people might be starting to go to Belgium now instead of France).
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Disillusioned wrote:
    Cigarettes too aren't that much cheaper in France; about 5 euros a pack. It used to be a lot cheaper. (Although, I think people might be starting to go to Belgium now instead of France).

    Germany is cheap as tbh!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I don't think the extra money the government would make from those who no longer went on booze cruises would be near enough to cancel out the loss of reveune.

    It is estimated that the cost to the UK Treasury of people going to France for their booze and cigs is about £2bn.

    If lowering taxes keeps £1bn of that in this country, then I'm all for it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It depends on the level, by which you lower it. There's a balance between how much you loose on taxation from people going abroad and how much you loose from reducing the tax (but with more people shopping in the UK). If you cut it by too much you may get everyone shopping in the UK, but you still loose more in tax than you gain.
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