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idolising idiots?

PearlyPearly *********Posts: 345 Boards Initiate
Are we spending too much time idolising Z-list celebrities and forgetting about the people who are more worthy of our approval? Kate thinks so...

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  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,265 Incredible Poster
    Thats about sex with a X :|
  • PearlyPearly ********* Posts: 345 Boards Initiate
    All sorted now! Thanks...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Pearly wrote:
    Are we spending too much time idolising Z-list celebrities and forgetting about the people who are more worthy of our approval? Kate thinks so...
    I was expecting an article from Kate Lawler there for some reason. Incidentally, has anyone seen how self-indulgent Paris Hilton's new video is? A kid brings her into school to make all the bullies jealous, with the line at the end "dare to dream." :rolleyes: I'm sure everyone does (actually, she'd be worth a punt, but "dream" is a bit much).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It starts off well but doesn't hold up with comments like this:

    "Take the heiress, Paris Hilton, for example. In my view, she's representative of the many celebrities girls look up to today - wealthy, beautiful, vain, advantaged and entertaining. She is almost untouchable; young girls strive to be her, men yearn to have possession of her. She is the stunning, unattainable young woman of today, flaunting her body and boasting about her sexual exploits."

    Paris Hilton is a cancer on the planet. She's a talentless, vacant whore who deserves to be stacking shelves in the Co-op rather than "partying" all the time. If women seriously look up to a skank like that then the world is utterly fucked. Ditto for that junkie-loving pig Kate Moss.

    Take a glance at the front pages of those awful gossip mags in the newsagents and you'll see that Britain is z-list celeb obsessed. That awful moaning bint from Big Brother was on the front of a couple of them for some reason. Who cares what she does and who cares what her opinion is on anything? She's a nobody. But she's a nobody that fellow idiots are giving a helluva good living to by purchasing this trash and watching those awful TV shows.

    Then there's Jade Goody and Shantelle, both of whom fall into the wart-on-the-arse-of-earth catagory. They're thick as shit, can't sing, act, present, write, construct a coherent sentence, yet they're better off than most of us because they're "celebrities".

    It seems being a "celebrity" is a career choice, regardless of any lack of talent.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didnt read it, but yes the general public does spend too much time infatuated with the lives of "celebrities".

    pointless idolisation and trashy magazines do nothing good for anyone, it's all shit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can't understand why people get so worked up about it all.

    I love the way people are "idiots" to dare to have any sort of fame or status if they're not seen by the credibilty Nazis to have any talent. The examples YCD picked out (Jade and Chantelle) are probably both from working class families, probably not massively well educated - it'd be seen as sheer snobbery to call them idiots you came across them in your day to day life, but because they've been on Big Brother then it's alright to call them morons?

    They're famous because they're entertaining to loads of people on a pretty grand scale. If I had half an hour spare, I'd far rather read something trashy in Heat about whoever's famous at the moment for whatever reason (bar that vile Hilton thing) than somebody boring as fuck who's perceived to have some sort of talent, by people who're very possibly equally as boring.

    People like them obviously have some sort of appeal on a pretty wide scale. It's easy to say that they shouldn't be idolised because they've apparently no talent, but there's a hell of a lot of worse role models out there. Look that that Brand moron, constantly drugged up to his eyeballs and shagging a different woman every night - his "comedy" (which appears to consist of reference after reference to ballsacks) should mainly appeal to impressionable 14 year old schoolboys who look up rude words in French dictionaries at school. Or almost as bad - that Doherty clown. Both of which probably get as much if not more undeserved press attention than X off Big Brother, especially in the long run.

    If I had a kid I'd much rather they idolised somebody like Chantelle who seems like a nice enough girl, who'd been knocked back by modelling agency after modelling agency but kept trying and got a bit of a break and now she's got the life she always wanted. Fuck it, might not be the most credible thing in the world, but it's determination that helped get her where she wanted to be. People just knock stuff without thinking about it.

    It really is pretty easy though, if you've got THAT much of an issue with stupid, uneducated people who've absolutely no right to breathe the same air as you, far less than earn a penny more than you - you can just turn it off if they're on TV or stop "accidentally" seeing magazines that they're in and sod off and read The Guardian or whatever :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    YouCrazyDiamond I think I love you (and is that a Pink Floyd reference I spy :heart:) I agree utterly and completely.

    If I had a child, well daughter to be more specific, I'd rather they idolised Maya Angelou, Germaine Greer... heck even someone like Mandonga than the dafties shunted forward as "what girls are supposed to be like" at the moment. I worry for my hypothetical daughters growing up in a world where being utterly normal and not knowing the answer to a ridiculously easy question or having the slightest amount of self-awareness is seen as 'the way to be' or - GOD HELP US ALL - endearing. As for young and teenage lads, it's an issue, of course, but since there is far less focus on men to be everything to everyone and to be scrutinised on every level then they get off relatively lightly. Also, male role models are largely automatically positive in that they're often sporting figures who are talented and successful and display both merit and determination. It's very rare we see that with females, since what is valued is hugely different between the sexes.

    I think celebrating people for being - at best - extremely ordinary and like any old person you'd see on the street, is a worrying trend and wrong on the most base of levels. I also think that it's pretty damn scary that expressing such a view immediately paints you as some snobby elitist who despises/resents any "working class dun gud" story. But then, TV and the media at large have never set out to provide young people with positive role models, instead choosing to focus on celebrating everything that is wrong with mankind today. It's madness to expect to see any kind of sentient, educated and erudite example set by a medium that celebrates the complete opposite in 90% of its programming.

    The biggest perp here is that godawful fishwife Jade Goody, without a shadow of a doubt. I don't give a fruit how much money and attention it has amassed so far, she is a lowlife and always will be... imagine punching people in the cinema as some kind of stand against bullying :lol: Wtf, seriously. I hope she gets slapped with an ASBO. I still can't believe she has lived down squirming around naked on TV like a stuck pig and gained some kind of, er, respect. Shame on us.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :heart: Jade Goody
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Any specific reasons for this love? :razz:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    Any specific reasons for this love? :razz:
    Because she is great :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bri-namite wrote:
    The examples YCD picked out (Jade and Chantelle) are probably both from working class families, probably not massively well educated - it'd be seen as sheer snobbery to call them idiots you came across them in your day to day life, but because they've been on Big Brother then it's alright to call them morons?

    They're famous because they're entertaining to loads of people on a pretty grand scale. If I had half an hour spare, I'd far rather read something trashy in Heat about whoever's famous at the moment for whatever reason (bar that vile Hilton thing) than somebody boring as fuck who's perceived to have some sort of talent, by people who're very possibly equally as boring.

    People like them obviously have some sort of appeal on a pretty wide scale. It's easy to say that they shouldn't be idolised because they've apparently no talent, but there's a hell of a lot of worse role models out there. Look that that Brand moron, constantly drugged up to his eyeballs and shagging a different woman every night - his "comedy" (which appears to consist of reference after reference to ballsacks) should mainly appeal to impressionable 14 year old schoolboys who look up rude words in French dictionaries at school. Or almost as bad - that Doherty clown. Both of which probably get as much if not more undeserved press attention than X off Big Brother, especially in the long run.

    If I had a kid I'd much rather they idolised somebody like Chantelle who seems like a nice enough girl, who'd been knocked back by modelling agency after modelling agency but kept trying and got a bit of a break and now she's got the life she always wanted. Fuck it, might not be the most credible thing in the world, but it's determination that helped get her where she wanted to be. People just knock stuff without thinking about it.

    It really is pretty easy though, if you've got THAT much of an issue with stupid, uneducated people who've absolutely no right to breathe the same air as you, far less than earn a penny more than you - you can just turn it off if they're on TV or stop "accidentally" seeing magazines that they're in and sod off and read The Guardian or whatever :thumb:

    It's interesting that you try and justify Jade and Chantelle's fame and "status" as role models by mentioning Russell Brand (waste of space) and Pete Doherty (junkie who pissed his talent up agains the wall). Comparing the pairs as role models is like giving someone the choice between cancer or the AIDS.

    The obsession with z-list celebrities shows that people are more than happy to settle for mediocrity. They aspire to be just like the professional thickos on television, whoring their identity for a few months of 'fame' and bringing out an autobiography to tell fellow ambition-free mentalists all about their completely average lives. It's a disease of modern society that people are happy to settle for even less than second best by obsessing over celebrity marriages, the Beckhams, the offspring of anyone that's been on TV and, worst of all, reality TV contestants. If I had a kid who aspired to be like that pig off Big Brother then I'd have failed miserably as a parent.

    Can you imagine if Britain had always been this way? Isaac Newton: change the world or read Ye Olde Heat Magazine to see what some waster, elevated to the position of social commentator, thinks about fellow "celebs".

    It's not snobbery; and people are entitled to watch whatever guff they want on TV. I just think it's sad that people are so desperately unimaginitive that they settle for that as entertainment. :)

    Bri-namite wrote:
    Can't understand why people get so worked up about it all.

    I love the way people are "idiots" to dare to have any sort of fame or status if they're not seen by the credibilty Nazis to have any talent.

    http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/Godwins-Law.html

    :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    If I had a child, well daughter to be more specific, I'd rather they idolised Maya Angelou, Germaine Greer... heck even someone like Mandonga than the dafties shunted forward as "what girls are supposed to be like" at the moment.

    You mean you would rather they look up to someone who is a free-thinker and quite intelligent? Perish the thought :eek:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can you imagine if Britain had always been this way? Isaac Newton: change the world or read Ye Olde Heat Magazine to see what some waster, elevated to the position of social commentator, thinks about fellow "celebs".
    Newton was a nutter :D

    Jade Goody isn't a pig, she was a size 14 at her biggest.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Randomgirl wrote:
    Newton was a nutter :D

    There IS a fine line between genius and insanity. ;)
    Randomgirl wrote:
    Jade Goody isn't a pig, she was a size 14 at her biggest.

    I wasn't talking about her size... :p

    2roj13m.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nobody says it's really the be all and end all of the entertainment industry, but I think there is a bit of snobbery about it though.

    While I don't think the likes of Chantelle should necessarily be hailed as role models of that all young women should aspire to, but I don't think there's much harm at all in a 14 year old girl "idolising" a pretty young thing like Chantelle who likes makeup and shopping and who tells young girls to go for their dreams. It's maybe not high-brow enough for some of us, but for kids who're impressionable to role models then that's what life should be all about. To me at least, it sounds immenseley preferable to feeding my teenage daughter the life works of Germaine Greer.

    You could say somebody like Charlotte Church who has/had a decent enough voice and therefore some degree of talent, falling out of nightclubs every over night of the week. Having talent (like Church, Doherty, Brand, Gascoigne may or may not have) means absolutely nothing (as far as being a role model goes) if you piss it away. Far rather idolise somebody like down to earth Chantelle who might not be the Brains of Britain or a fantastic play writer, but shows that if you do keep going, then you can acheive what you want to. Yet it's the likes of her who are vilified and classed as morons and imbeciles, yet there really are far more worthwhile targets.

    Why should people with "talent" be seen as role models anyway? If you've got a talented kid, then if they work hard then there's a pretty good chance they'll make it in whatever they want to do (depending on what it is), but if you've got a kid that's maybe not so talented then all you can really do is encourage them to work hard and use what they've got to the best of their ability, like Chantelle or whoever else has done.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Randomgirl wrote:

    Jade Goody isn't a pig, she was a size 14 at her biggest.
    16 at least....certainly on top

    as for idolising them.....i certainly dont look up to them, or want to be them, i just like being nosey and reading whats going on in their lives, nothing to do with idolising them
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    SophiA wrote:
    I think the whole problem is that women like Chantelle are telling young girls that "their dreams" should basically consist of make up, shopping, marrying a footballer, etc. That's my problem with the culture of idolising idiots anyway. I would like my daughters to aspire to being scientists, barristers, CEOs of major corporations, writers, artists, poets, judges, university professors, doctors, midwives, etc etc etc....but women like Chantelle, BB Nikki, Posh etc tell us that all women really ought to seek to be is pretty, thin, tanned, vacuous clothes horses with a footballer on their arms and a pair of Manolo Blahniks on their feet.

    But surely the age range Chantelle appeals to most (other than young red blooded men) are young girls aged 11-14. At that age, I can't see how it's abnormal or unhealthy for girls to be into girly things like makeup and shopping and dream of marrying David Beckham, and I honestly don't think it makes them any more likely to still want to aspire to footballers wife status when they hit 18 and have to decide what they want to do with their lives.

    Having being the only person in this thread tragic enough to have read her autobiography, she was bullied because of her looks, came through it and now she's able to be a role model for kids who're probably going through something similar.

    As far as being a role model goes, I'd imagine that means the bad outweighs the good. Probably can't say the same for that Goody creature, but anyway...

    SophiA wrote:
    Incidentally, it's a book which has sold millions of copies and changed millions of women's lives, so I can't quite understand why you're so troubled by it (unless of course you haven't actually read it).

    Eh?

    I was responding to briggi's example when she mentioned Germaine Greer as somebody who she thinks would be a good role model to her daughter, whereas the point I was making was that at that age I don't think girls should necessarily feel the need to have to read "serious" books like that at all if they don't want to.

    You can replace Greer with anybody you like if it bothers you that much, end of the day my point is still the same.
    SophiA wrote:
    Even her own husband calls her a bimbo. She plays upon, exploits, encourages her status as a moron and an imbecile because it makes her a lot of money. Fair enough that in itself suggests a certain shrewdness (although it's probably a strategy thought up more by her management than her...I'm inclined to believe she really is a moron and an imbecile), but you can't deny that the glorification of her stupidity, which she herself plays a part in, contributes to a general dumbing down of popular culture and represents a serious shift in the types of people we hold up as role models.

    Depends what qualities you value as being important in a role model really.
    I hate the fact that this comes down to education and snobbery, but I wouldn't think any less of my daughter whether she wanted to be a scientist, a teacher, a Big Brother contestant or a hairdresser, so long as she was happy and made a right effort going for whatever she wanted to do. Maybe it'd make me a bad parent for not being unhappy that my girl didn't strive to be CEO of Microsoft and I just let her have her own dreams and ambitions, but if so then so be it.

    For the record, I know, work with and I've been out and love spending time with "Chantelles" who're maybe a bit dizzy and not as well educated or well read as some others (or as you prefer, "stupid"), and I can see how people think they're hardly worthy to breathe the same air as them

    But I'd sure as heck like my daughter to be someone down to earth, happy, no real airs and graces about them and who can have a giggle at themself, than somebody really straight laced and proper who're really thankful Mummy and Daddy stopped them watching those awful commoners on TV.

    I don't think anybody really gets where I'm coming from though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bri-namite wrote:
    Having being the only person in this thread tragic enough to have read her autobiography, she was bullied because of her looks, came through it and now she's able to be a role model for kids who're probably going through something similar.

    Right. But - without having read it for myself - she has come through it by presumably moulding herself into the shape of a woman more generally deemed attractive than the girl she was. Good for her if it makes her feel great about herself, and I feel for her if she was bullied (but really, you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who wasn't bullied at some point in their youth) but the message there is that you can show those damn bullies if you grow up to hold the looks and fame that no one ever thought you'd have. I can completely understand that motivation, but it makes me feel sad for her rather than any sense of admiration. Obviously she cares immensely for the attention and adulation of the masses, and we need to show young people that this is not the only source of self-worth or the only way to actually "be" someone in this world. Even though that is becoming more and more the way of it.
    I was responding to briggi's example when she mentioned Germaine Greer as somebody who she thinks would be a good role model to her daughter, whereas the point I was making was that at that age I don't think girls should necessarily feel the need to have to read "serious" books like that at all if they don't want to.

    That's fair enough. We all have different values and ideas of what is good for our own mental health and wellbeing, and in turn that of our children when they come into the world. Of course no one should feel the "need" or intense pressure to read anything they have no interest in, but my own personal opinion is that it is of great importance to read serious books and especially those that are as eye-opening as Germaine Greer's or anyone else on that level of academia. Unfortunately the way things are, girls feel the polar opposite type of pressure. Pressure to read Heat, Closer, Star, New (etc etc ad nauseum) and emulate the "who, me?", "aw, shucks" mentality of most of the women featured. That is, if they are even in the unlikely position of being invited to express their opinions and thoughts. As usually they're merely for decorative purposes... in both men's and women's magazines.
    Depends what qualities you value as being important in a role model really.
    I hate the fact that this comes down to education and snobbery, but I wouldn't think any less of my daughter whether she wanted to be a scientist, a teacher, a Big Brother contestant or a hairdresser, so long as she was happy and made a right effort going for whatever she wanted to do. Maybe it'd make me a bad parent for not being unhappy that my girl didn't strive to be CEO of Microsoft and I just let her have her own dreams and ambitions, but if so then so be it.

    Now, I take issue with your grouping "scientists and teachers" and "hairdressers and BB contestants", that isn't fair. Hairdressing isn't an academic profession, but it requires at least a level of training and a varying degree of skill and flair. Hairdressers are going to find gainful employment all over the world as long as we all grow hair out of our heads, and are an important part of our society. People whose life ambition is to accrue some - any - kind of fame through a reality show, shagging another vaguely famous person or falling out of clubs with their tiddy showing are not contributing anything to anyone anywhere. Some might even say they are detracting from (destroying?) society... and impressionable minds. I think it's wrong to impose anything on children, I wouldn't force my (or anyone else's) children to read literature they wasn't interested in but I would encourage them and steer them away from glossies I wouldn't wipe my arse on. At the end of the day there is a big enough market for both types of role model, and if I felt that academic, strong-minded and clued-up women were represented as fairly in the media as their opposites then I'd have no problem with both co-existing (maybe not) happily side by side.
    For the record, I know, work with and I've been out and love spending time with "Chantelles" who're maybe a bit dizzy and not as well educated or well read as some others (or as you prefer, "stupid"), and I can see how people think they're hardly worthy to breathe the same air as them.

    Bollocks. A small minority of people may judge based on how intelligent or dizzy they perceive someone to be, that is all. If you enjoy spending time with those people then fair fucks to you, it's not wrong not to enjoy spending time with them. I wouldn't have a lot in common with someone who wasn't well-read (being well-educated is another matter entirely, as that is out of most people's control) and wouldn't actively seek them out as friends. It doesn't mean that I - or anyone with that, or a similar, opinion - thinks they are oh-so-much better. It is worth mentioning at this point that then you have the flip-side of this snobbery you describe - where those who are proud of their loathing of books, learning, arts etc have a raging tendency for inverse snobbery where they revile any kind of education or self-improvement. I have actually come across that in my life more than the opposite, and in my more impressionable youth taken many steps to dumb myself down, change the way I speak etc in some bizarre attempt to fit in with people who were nothing like me and with whom I had nothing in common. I can't imagine doing that now, but I can imagine many, many young girls doing that exact same thing because of the "normal" and supposedly attractive behaviour exhibited by their peers and the shallow entities on TV. Specific famous personalities aside, it is utterly disgraceful that people, programmes, publications dumbing down is no surprise at all in these times.
    But I'd sure as heck like my daughter to be someone down to earth, happy, no real airs and graces about them and who can have a giggle at themself, than somebody really straight laced and proper who're really thankful Mummy and Daddy stopped them watching those awful commoners on TV.

    You can be educated, erudite and well-read as well as being down to earth, happy, with no airs or graces and able to laugh at yourself. Being educated and knowing your [educated] mind is not synonymous with being straight-laced and proper. I, and most of the females I know, are living proof of that. It is all down to individuals, I have female accquaintances who are both of these two succinct types you have painted womankind into - and some of each are rotten, some lovely as they day they were born. I really resent the fact that wanting positive, intelligent and dignified role models for girls and fitting media representation somehow makes a person a bona fide snob with a "mummy" and "daddy" and who is completely alienated from the real world (with a sense of humour by-pass to boot). That's just bullshit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Haha, all I could think about was Nathan Barley..anyone else?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    Right. But - without having read it for myself - she has come through it by presumably moulding herself into the shape of a woman more generally deemed attractive than the girl she was. Good for her if it makes her feel great about herself, and I feel for her if she was bullied (but really, you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who wasn't bullied at some point in their youth) but the message there is that you can show those damn bullies if you grow up to hold the looks and fame that no one ever thought you'd have.

    It's not even the looks or the fame specifically.

    Sure, Chantelle ended up with the fame and stuff but she makes a point in her book of saying how people should go for their dreams whatever they are - be it going to uni and getting a kickass job or whatever - and at the end of the day when a kid is getting the confidence kicked out of them then they can maybe look at Chantelle or whoever and think "She came out of this and acheived her dreams, maybe I can too?"

    Like I say, I just don't think it's really helpful classing people like her as morons or lowlife, where on the grand scale of things then that's not really the way of it.
    briggi wrote:
    Now, I take issue with your grouping "scientists and teachers" and "hairdressers and BB contestants", that isn't fair. Hairdressing isn't an academic profession, but it requires at least a level of training and a varying degree of skill and flair. Hairdressers are going to find gainful employment all over the world as long as we all grow hair out of our heads, and are an important part of our society. People whose life ambition is to accrue some - any - kind of fame through a reality show, shagging another vaguely famous person or falling out of clubs with their tiddy showing are not contributing anything to anyone anywhere..

    First of all, I didn't really group them together. Point was whatever my kid wanted to be then they'd have my unconditional support and whatever else, whether or not the masses thought she was contributing to society or not, then fuck them.

    You're also assuming that these people only have a lifelong ambition for fame. If a fairy godmother came down to me and said I could have a good six months of fame, getting wasted every night and falling out of nightclubs, make a few personal appearances in nightclubs for a couple of grand a time, shag a few girls, then go back to my normal job - I'd bite their hand off.

    Most people I associate myself with probably would too, maybe that makes us morons or whatever, I don't know.

    briggi wrote:
    Bollocks. A small minority of people may judge based on how intelligent or dizzy they perceive someone to be, that is all. If you enjoy spending time with those people then fair fucks to you, it's not wrong not to enjoy spending time with them. I wouldn't have a lot in common with someone who wasn't well-read (being well-educated is another matter entirely, as that is out of most people's control) and wouldn't actively seek them out as friends. It doesn't mean that I - or anyone with that, or a similar, opinion - thinks they are oh-so-much better...

    There's a big difference between not actively searching people out as friends and labelling people as stupid morons.

    You only need to look through this thread to see people calling the likes of Chantelle "stupid" and a "moron", probably because she didn't display a fantastic general knowledge (maybe it's not even her education, maybe that's just the way she was made), and you're even seeing people who dare to pick up a glossy as being called brain dead and ambition-free, and I think that's at best patronising and at worst downright snobbery.

    For most people, celebrity gossip is a way to kill half an hour on your lunch break (like I did today, oh my mother had such high hopes for me), and just because people choose to do that rather than read the Independent or whatever doesn't mean a thing really.
    briggi wrote:
    You can be educated, erudite and well-read as well as being down to earth, happy, with no airs or graces and able to laugh at yourself. Being educated and knowing your [educated] mind is not synonymous with being straight-laced and proper. I, and most of the females I know, are living proof of that. It is all down to individuals, I have female accquaintances who are both of these two succinct types you have painted womankind into - and some of each are rotten, some lovely as they day they were born.

    Exactly - we're all different.

    I exaggerated to a point with the mummy and daddy thing, but I've got a real personal issue with people who look down on other people for no valid reason, and while there are some pretty pointless and bad role models among the Z list celebrity world, there are some who aren't acting it up but they still get tarred with the moron brush.

    And whilst there's everything right and nothing wrong with being well educated and trying to better yourself, it sure as fuck doesn't give people the right to shit on those who aren't necessarily as highbrow, whether they choose not to be or not.

    I'd also like to say that I really hope to fuck this didn't turn into a boy v girl thing, it just so happens that the examples that came up were both female.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bri-namite wrote:
    I don't think anybody really gets where I'm coming from though.

    I do.

    I want my kids to be whatever makes them happy. My job as a parent is to try and steer them in the right direction.

    I personally don't think that reality TV or mediocre sanitisied pop musice is anything to aspire to, but it's a shit load better that most of the other options which we lay in front of working class kids.

    It's easy to be middle class, there are plenty of options.
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