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beyond international law?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
in Politics & Debate
Story

While I realise this is unlikely. I request firmly now that you kindly not derail this thread into another israel palestine non-debate, that's not the point, and barely relevant.

So, Israel are flouting international law, is it time they got taught a lesson, would French forces have been out of line to open fire on israeli jets considering their behaviour?

Comments please?

I personally think those buggers should have been shot down.

Comments

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the jets from country A are attacking the jets from country B and violating Bs airspace in doing so then it would not be unreasonable to shoot down the A jets.

    Regardless of who A or B is.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Reminds me of a time when I was younger, me and a mate went up our local mountain to the British army base with Celtic tops on and started throwing shit at them, we got chased and the soldiers said we were lucky not to get shot because there was a new battalion in who weren't used to that sort of stuff haha!

    Fiend-are you that naive to believe international law is enforced whenever something wrong happens? It only serves to benefit those who can enforce it. France can't enforce it on Israel so nothing will happen, whoop-de-doo I've got a 1000 things I'm more concerned with tbh. Scratch that, make it 9,265. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, I'm not, but thanks for that unnecessary interjection.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    No, I'm not, but thanks for that unnecessary interjection.

    Sorry it's just that I'm not good at finishing my sentences properly well..ington...boots..is a nice shop...ping centre...of a square...head?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    International law is a farce, it doesnt exist in any meaningful sense at all. If you have a big enough stick (or an ally with a big stick) then you are the law.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So why aren't we using our stick? It's not like the french anti aircraft battery or a german navel destroyer should have any problems from Israel.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think we need to spread a little love in the Middle East and that everyone should stop being so belligerent
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    So why aren't we using our stick? It's not like the french anti aircraft battery or a german navel destroyer should have any problems from Israel.

    They've got nukes, and they are allied with the US, so any overt action from us towards Israel would bring at least nasty trade sanctions from the US.

    And of course, if we decided on our own that they had broken international law without going through the UN, then we would have broken international law ourselves. And if we tried anything through the UN it would get vetoed by the US.

    See? International law is a farce.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    They've got nukes.

    What's that got to do with anything? Israel will never use nuclear weaponry against any European power.

    International law is a farce, it's stupid to think you can implement laws worldwide where there are such diverse cultures and attitudes. As I've said, it only suits those who have the power to use it, it's ok for Slobodan Milosevic to be tried in the Hague but as for Sadam, well he must be tried in Iraq. It's fucking stupid.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote:
    What's that got to do with anything? Israel will never use nuclear weaponry against any European power.

    Wouldnt they? I dont think it all that far fetched if we are discussing the possibility of France and Britain conducting air strikes on Israel.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No punitive expeditions, just shooting down their plans when they act like arseholes over lebanon, just for the sake of arguement.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We don't need to shoot down any more planes. We need to spread some love and understanding in this world. And as Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
    says, there is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    Wouldnt they? I dont think it all that far fetched if we are discussing the possibility of France and Britain conducting air strikes on Israel.

    Yeh but what's that got to do with nuclear weapons?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote:
    Yeh but what's that got to do with nuclear weapons?

    I was just suggesting that I dont find it all that hard to believe that Israel would use them if there were French and British air strikes.

    But then all of this is just talk really, because we wouldnt hit out at Israel because they have the US to back them up regardless. And anyway, the UK doesnt have any troops or airplanes it could use at the moment.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    I was just suggesting that I dont find it all that hard to believe that Israel would use them if there were French and British air strikes.

    But then all of this is just talk really, because we wouldnt hit out at Israel because they have the US to back them up regardless. And anyway, the UK doesnt have any troops or airplanes it could use at the moment.

    Well if you don't find it hard to believe then you're living in a fantasy land.

    Your second point demonstrates why.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote:
    Well if you don't find it hard to believe then you're living in a fantasy land.

    So you dont think Israel would consider using them if there were a series of French and UK air strikes? It wouldnt even be an option? What the hell do they have them for then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    So you dont think Israel would consider using them if there were a series of French and UK air strikes? It wouldnt even be an option? What the hell do they have them for then?

    Protection from Middle Eastern threats.

    World politics doesn't work like that, the main actors are pretty much exempt from nuclear threats from similar main actors. Again, what you are saying is purely hypothetical, there's no reason for us bombing Israel as long as they're allied to the US. I also suspect the US has control over Israeli nuclear weapons so any disputes would be solved through them, more than like diplomatically.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Regardless, this is a thread about this particular situation - there are plenty of other more general threads about Israel - so please keep this debate related more directly to the story in question - hypothetical discussions of nuclear weapon controls really aren't close enough.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The point of having nuclear weapons might at first thought seem as an utility, but it goes way beyond that. MAD - mutually assured destruction. Nations possess nuclear weapons to be able to threat other nations, but if they were to be used, nations will retaliate so no-one is prepared to use them (at least up until now). It's an invisible way of keeping nations from using nuclear weapons as it would mean they would be hit by nuclear weapons.

    Someone fires -- that's all that's needed. Just the tiny spark, and we're all doomed.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    Regardless, this is a thread about this particular situation - there are plenty of other more general threads about Israel - so please keep this debate related more directly to the story in question - hypothetical discussions of nuclear weapon controls really aren't close enough.

    Fair enough, I didnt mean it as anymore than a throwaway comment anyway.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    Fair enough, I didnt mean it as anymore than a throwaway comment anyway.

    Don't lie. You did it deliberately, now lets talk about cabbage.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I guess if any national forces were harassing UN peacekeeping forces they should get what they're asking for. You cant intend to play chicken and not get hurt.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its also that if peacekeepers start shooting every time there's an infraction they quickly get dragged into a real shooting war.

    In Bos we were often being tested by the main players, if we'd open fire every time we'd have run out of bullets
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