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NHS - a rant
Pearly
Posts: 345 The Mix Regular
Whoa, Alex is not a happy chappy and thinks the NHS isn't doing a good enough job of looking after his nan.
Have a read and see if you agree with him...
http://www.thesite.org.uk/community/reallife/rants/nationalhealthdisaster
Have a read and see if you agree with him...
http://www.thesite.org.uk/community/reallife/rants/nationalhealthdisaster
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But then on the other hand I think people often have unreasonable expectations of the health service. they're just normal people doing what is often a really bloody hard job. Like in other things, some of them are bad at their jobs, but then some are brilliant, and I could tell you some heartwarming stories.
I'm sitting on the fence, I think.
*goes to have a look*
It's a shame that you've changed your mind, especially if this is the reason. Surely you could do better?
You need to remember this, when you are ranting about the NHS... I'm am not passing the buck, but if people looked after themselves a little better (and I include myself in that) then we wouldn't need to spend so much treating their associated problems, there wouldn't be so much demand and either that would leave more moeny to invest in other areas, or we would have lower taxes.
All good advice?
inhaler for her breathlessness, asparin for her blood pressure/hreat. Cannot comment on the "various others"
I will not defend the NHS on this. What I will say is that political targets have meant that moeny which could be used in other areas has gone on meeting the "strings" attached to increased investment. Often this is not necessarily the places which NHS managers would like to invest in.
Diagnostic tests like your Nan's are now included in the "targets" and (I know this won't help her) this will mean that the situation will improve - just like it has in the areas where money has been invested.
To me this looks wrong, and is unlikely to be a funding issue and more an oversight. Did you chase them?
Several months later? It's unlikely after that length of time that she was still suffering from withdrawl.
:rolleyes: That always gets my back up. When will people realise that their attitude is as much part of the treatment as the medication?
Why would they, what do you know, you aren't a doctor.
At least, that would be the approach of many of my clinical colleagues. Families over react, over play situations and so when it is reality they are not believed. It's a peter and the Wolf situation except in this case it's not peter who is ignored but anyone.
Are you her carer?
Have you contacted the Older People's Mental Healt hteam? There will be beds in your general area.
What I would ask though is how you "know" that she needs a bed. You might think that she does, but that doesn't mean that she actually does. Please bear that in mind because if you raise your expectations then you might raise them too far and the NHS will never achieve that because no-one would.
"Experinmenting" is a harsh word. The complicated interractions between pharma mean that what works for one person may not work for another. You may see that, and describe it as, experimenting but wouldn't yuo prefer her to ge tthe right medication? Or would you prefer that they never changed them, or didn't give her anything?
harsh as it may sound, that could be correct. Older people often have multiple conditions and the drugs for one can interract with another - or cause other side effects which manifest as another condition.
medicine really isn't always straight forwards, doctors don't know everything and cannot always diagnose instantly.
Harsh and I'd put money on you not really meaning that.
Apart from the long wait at the start, how has the NHS let you/her down. She is seen regularly, she is on medication and she doesn't have to pay a penny for it.
It's that last part that the NHS stands for, free at the point of care health services.
I'm not so sure that you are as strong as you think, and your soft side actually shows itself through your anger at the NHS. Yuo seem to strike out as if you are looking for a taregt to release your tension.
Are they not trying to help then?
Not always so tha tisn't fair. In fact it often happens the other way where people are admitted without justification, in order to hit the same target.
As for the target itself, that was actually a public suggestion and I have to ask if you wuold rather that she staying in A&E for 36 hours, on a trolley, which was the situation before the target came into being.
It may be the editing by thesite, but ntohing in your rant suggests that to be the case. Ir reads to me like they are trying to help but cannot find the solution. The one place I have a problem with is the wait at the start.
Finally, if you are reading this, managing in the NHS is my job. I am more than happy to help you via PMs if you need advice or a sounding board.
I didn't read anything in his article which suggested that at all.
Maybe you edited it out? (or I missed it)
If you didn't, then this is sloppy, sensationalist journalism at it's worst. At least I have the right to reply, through this message board because negative reporting of the NHS is troubling enough when it is accurate. There is no excuse when it isn't.
Indeed. My dad gave up smoking in January and I don't ever remember him suffering from withdrawl problems this late on. Of course, it is idfferent for everyone.
:yes:
Hear Hear, just becase you want a 'rant' doesn't mean you get to exagerrate to get one, or did you need to make it sound more 'rant like'.
I've always wanted to be a doctor, that or a fighter pilot. When I was 18, I made a "rational" decision to pursue a career in Construction as I thought there would be more opportunities in the field. Could I have been a good doctor? We will never know.
I am aware of this. However, the rant just skims the surface. My nan started to smoke in wake of some bad treatment in 1974. She has a history of depression since about that time and she was 1) never properly diagnosed and 2) never had a chance to have her say in the matter because of an overbearing husband.
Also, what you are saying is spot on, but for that to happen, health education needs to be better. I know recently it's improved a lot, so hopefully it will keep getting better.
Yes all sound advice in a different situation. However, in my nans situation, this was bad advice. You try telling someone who has been smoking for so long to relieve depression to quit immediately. And the same goes for the diet. Medication that was given was thought that it might have helped her (it was an assumption), and it didn't. I'd rather they not give her anything than give her something that might or might not work.
I'll take your word for it.
Yep. Directly and through the GP.
Together with the GP we tried switching the strength of the patches, it didn't work. 3 months down the line, she was shaking a lot, her mouth was dry and her tongue was doing involuntary movements and she couldn't stop itching. Those were the main 3 symptoms (physical ones). There is also the psychological one, she believes that cigarettes help her with depression.
I realize how that might sound to you. However, given my nan's psychiatric history, it was not surprising to me. It's all in her file, the doctors should have been more aware of her condition and talked to her in a different way. Hell, I even mentioned to the doctor that she might not be very trusting.
Surely you don't mean that. Just because I am not a doctor, doesn't mean I am ignorant on the matter. My dad's a doctor, I've spent most of my chidlhood around him and other doctors, my favourite subject in high school was biology and my first choice for Uni was Medicine. Furthermore, medicine and psychology are of much interest to me and I have done a lot of reading on various things. I am not a layman. If more people knew more about medicine and how the body works, surely that would be good for the NHS. Her GP and the psyche nurses have always asked me for advice and trusted me with treatment and things. Why would they listen to me? because I know more about her everyday life, mannerisms and symptoms than them. And hell if I thought I was a doctor, why would I bother taking her to hospital.
I am the first one to be pissed off by over-reacting families and patients. Infact, if it was up to my nan, she would have been up to casualty many times mopre than she has. But I was always there to make the decision with help of the GP and the 4647 NHS number.
Not officially. But I am the only family she's got here. Her husband is more of a detrement than help.
No. She is under the care of MHICOP, well she was, and also CPM. She has gone back under CPM care, but the nurse hasn't been in contact for a while, tried ringing, no luck. I was also told by the Casualty and the local Psychiatric Unit that there were no beds for her and also the Local Psychiatric Unit does not "bed" people over the age of 65. They are closing down anyway....
How do I know? Lets see. She has a bacteria in her stomach she needs to take antibiotics for. She wouldn't take them. I have said that to the GP and many other doctors. She will not eat properly because she says she can't, she will not even try. She will not let me get near her pills to check whether she is taking the right ones. I am absolutely certain that she takes some of them more than she should. She has hallucinations which have been happening for 8 months now. She even carries a knife around the house. She is constepated. She has ocassional stomach pains. She also keeps chanting to God and asks him why won't he take her. She regularly says that she will "off" herself. Doctors know all this. The GP is happy that she is addicted to a high dose of valium. He also doesn't know what's up with her stomach. and neither do the hospital. If I was a doctor and she was experiencing the symptoms and pains she was, I would do an ultra sound of her lower bowel and upper bowel, her stomach, I would scan her liver and her kidneys. I would hospitalize her and get her on a drip with some medication that will help her salm down and make her feel better in the head. I would also make sure she had a proper diet during those days. And also, I would make sure she had all sorts of tests done to her to find out what the hell was wrong with her.
It might be harsh but it's true. One of the doctors has even given her some anti depressants that interfere with diabetes, even though he knew she had diabetes.
I know some tablets work differently with different people and obviously they need to figure out what's best for her. But they are concentrating on her mental state instead of physical. They don't seem to know what Mens sana in corpore sano stands for. It was clear to me some months ago the her old anti depressants were not working. I told that to the GP and the doctors in the hospital. no one listened to me. and then, 6 months down the line, they change them coz they are not working anymore. funny that.
All true, however she has been misdiagnozed originally and what happened after is history. I wasn't even born when she was first diagnozed. The whole thing should have been handled better.
I don't hate the NHS. I despise the way it operates. And also, apart from thinking some doctors need to improve their bedside manner and pay more attention to detail, I don't hate them. I think they can do better. And the nursing staff, they are all pretty great and I am sure they feel very unappreciated most of the time. So no I don't hate them.
Tell me something. My local NHS Trust is £95 million in debt, yet they are building a new wing. When I took my nan to casualty, she was seen by 10 different nursing staff and 3 different doctors. One took her blood pressure, one took her blood sample, one checked her sugar level, one checked the ECG... Are you telling me that one person could not have done that?
it seemed that ever little task required a different nurse. It was a bit funny really, but not in a good way. At one point there were 3 nurses helping my nan take her weight in one of those chairs... And then 3 different doctors attended to her. Why?
While they were waiting for results to come in, lots of people seemed to do nothing. My observation. Of course this was casualty so if it got hectic, i am sure they would all be used. But my nan did not need 10 nurses and 3 doctors.
So the local hospital plans to let 350 people go in the near future.
Not before there is a strike though.
The local health trust has been ignored by the Health Minister for a year almost. I don't know how she still has a job. I've spoken to a few workers in the hospital and one thing that stands out is that NO ONE listens to them, which i am sure is very frustrating.
I am strong. The rant is about how my nan was treated. There is nothing there about my life, well nothing substantial. I could have given up many times and gone to the gp and asked for meds to help me. I've thought about suicide many times, however I would have brushed the thought off within seconds and would say to myself something along the lines "get a grip, idiot". The things I've been through in the last 3 years, i could have every reason to hospitalize myself! But i made it through by self analysing myself, by questioning and challenging myself, by talking to my friends and etc... but anyway, this ain't about me!
Trying, perhaps. Succeeding, no. Room for improvement, definitely.
Is that admin talk for "we're fucked"?
I don't think she needed to be in the A&E for anything over an hour. But she ended up being chucked out at 4 hours dead.
I appreciate that and I appreciate how hard your job must be, but I will be fine. I am moving away and handing things over to the Council. I will be paying her weekly visits but I gotta get on with my life.
What you have to realize abot a rant is that it's not always logical or rational or well written, it's a tool to release some anger towards a subject. It's likely to pose some questions without offering suggestions. And it's likely to be subjective.
Bear that in mind.
Peace!
On those grounds people would very rarely get any medication ever.
Mens sana in corpore sano means a sound mind in a sound body, but it is very very difficult to treat the body effectively until you have good co operation.
Do you ever wonder if 2) had a bearing on 1)? I know that sometimes a patient will not divulge fully their problem because of fear about what might get out but also because of what others may think of them. that situation you describe wouldn't help if that was the case in this instance.
i know. i have to laugh when I listen to my public healt hcolleagues talk about how by stopping smoking the smoker will reduce their rate of death (i.e. for diabetics they will tell you that you have twice the risk of death if you smoke) - missing the point that the risk of death is always the same.
100% - it's the main guarantee in life.
Smoking is a depressant drug, so actually it was good advice. Doesn't make it any easier to follow though. Purely from a healt hperspective, advising people to stop smoking is rarely, if ever, bad advice.
The chances of it working must have been higher than not, or they wouldn't try it.
I got the impression from the article that you wanted her treated - yet here you criticise them for trying to do just that.
Personally, I am disgusted.
Ultimately this is the problem one, rather than anything else you mentioned there. Will power is the things which stops smokers from giving up - and I speak as a smoker who has tried on several occasions, broken the habit twice and started again each time.
She thinks that is anti-depressant because she feels better, she feel better because until she took the first drag her mind was crying out for the drug. Actually avoiding it altogether would have been the better course. But who am I to lecture anyone on quitting?
I think that, like me, she got caught up in the "habit" aspect.
Sorry, I mean the doctor's attitude, not your Nan's. Looking back I realise that I didn't word that very well. Sorry.
That wasn't the suggestion. It was more a case of me questioning the skills of those who were supposed to be helping you. You have been let down by individuals more than by the system.
Exactly, which is why it depresses me when doctors don't listen to those who know the patient best - often that means the patient themselves but also their family. That is the point I was trying to get across.
Oh god, NHS ReDirect. Possibly the biggest waste of money since 1997.
Have you been getting any support? I hope that your GP has offered you some help - counselling, respite etc
I didn't mean doorstep type local, but there will be a bed in the area (or at least a Unit), because there will be a need for it. Have to say, investment in Mental Health has been very, very low on the national priority list.
Noen of those are reasons to admit her to hospital though. She needs nursing care, for sure, but that doesn't have to be in a hospital.
I know that sounds cold, but IME it's pretty true.
There is an element where I agree with you there. But the diagnostics you mention can be done as outpatients, so she doesn't need to be in. As for the drip etc, you need her permission - unless she is sectioned and she isn't bad enough (for what you say) to justify that.
Of course they do. Doesn't mean that the interpretation they use is the same that a family member uses.
Which goes back to what I said earlier, you are seen as a layman (I suspect) and they are the doctors "who know best". Sad, but too often true.
Could, not necessarily should.
I work in the NHS and so see the best and worst of it. The best areas are the best in the world - sometimes the response we give (consider the "free aspect") are things which we should be proud about and IMHO the media should boast about too.
The worst make me want to scream, shout and do murder. It's often only these areas that the media report on.
Funny as it sounds, but this may help reduce the annual costs and thus reduce the debt. I could go into detail, but it gets very techy and is something which accountants usually bore me with, so I won't subject you to that.
It's also worth noting that there is a difference between capital funding (that spent on buildings, equipment - anything over £5k) and revenue (which is spent on staffing, maintenance etc. The debt will be the latter.
Nope, not a system I would have running, that's for sure.
The "Triage" nurse should be able to do all of that and treat many of the patients before they get into A&E "pproper".
1. The nurses will, at minimu, be in a pair because of the risk of your Nan falling. They would then have to pick her up and one person cannot do that without knackering their back.
2) I suspect that at least two of those doctors would be training grades. The only way to train them is for them to observe/assist.
Part A there, is what leads to Part B. I, for one, will not shed a tear if "superfluous" staff are dropped. The NHS is no, and should never be, a job for life.
Aye, and there will be public marches. Emotion plays a huge part.
If ever you think that the NHS is shit, just suggest that we should cloase a hospital, then watch people crawl out of the woodwork to protest
She has friends in very high places
In part I agree. But another part of me listens to the same people looking back with rose tinted glasses telling me how great the NHS used to be, forgetting that I heard them then[/i saying how shit it was. And it was a whole lot worse.
I am also aware that those same people will argue against change because "we've always worked this way", as if that is any kind of justification. my response is usually "why?", and rarely do you get a decent answer to that.
indirectly it is, because the situation has affected you in so many ways. It's okay to be upset, it's okay to be frustrated to feel helpless and to cry because you are having to watch someone who look out ofr you when you were growing up, slowly change into someone you don't know.
I've been there, bought the T-shirt and had the breakdown. The person was there for me when I needed them and I felt that I wasn;t there for them, because I didn;t know what to do. I saw the person who was part of my "protection" and was a twoer of strength when I was growing, who smiled when she saw me and who taught me how to be the person I am now, turn into a senile wreck who didn't remember me at all. It broke my heart everytime I saw her.
Trust me, don't be afraid to ask for help or you could find yourself sitting on the top of a cliff like I did.
Sickens me when I hear things like that. It's one of those "do murder" instances. Some of my colleague don't seem to realise that by changing the way a system works, you can actually treat people within four hours - unless they need admission in which case you know that within four hours - in about 98% of cases.
i wouldn't change my job for the world (okay maybe a lottery win
And yes, I know rants are subjective and I would never criticise you for venting your spleen. I do, however, firmly believe that there are two sides to a story. As with any media outlet, this place has decided that it likes the sensationalist story rather than the day to day one. It saddens me because I've lost some respect for this place.
Good luck, and remember the offer of help.
Oh yeah! But I've become quite a mind reader when it comes to her. Behavioural psychology.
I agree. However, after seeing her withdrawal symptoms, the GP surgery recommended she go back to smoking, but not as much. lesser of the two evils I suppose.
Not directly. I been talking to my dad a lot on the phone, finding stuff out thru the net, and I have been offloading stuff to my friend, she's been great when it comes to that. I am going back to Uni next week, looking forward to some free counselling,
Why don't they. Surely a big organization like the NHS should have a strong PR engine??
Yeah, I suppose. Thing is most of the time I get pissed off coz I am helpless and I don't like to be. I understand life comes to an end at some point and she has done well to reach 73, in my opinion. Just can't see it getting better from this point. But, c'est la vie.
Speaking from personal experience, it makes you kinda warm inside, don't it and it's very addictive, (I worked in customer service for a long time).
I think it's an excellent idea for an outlet to vent some frustrations from real life. However, it might be an idea to do the opposite as well and have a section for praise. A section about something good that's happened to you.
Human Nature tends to concentrate on the negative, so it would be twisting nature's hand somewhat. :thumb:
*waves at thesite.org decision makers....How about it?
Appreciate it. :thumb:
OK. I won't. Calm down dear.
They're bad enough (at wasting money) as it is!
Hey, well I am the journo who edited this piece - basically Alex's underlying feeling from the rant is a fair point and is what led me to write the part about his nan being treated unfairly because of her age - he mentions his nan can't be put in a phsych ward because of being over the age of 65 and "they still can't tell me what's wrong with her and they keep saying it's because she's old".
When I edited the piece, the feeling was that as a whole, it's not that the NHS aren't doing a good job, it's that people over a certain age who have a lot of problems often aren't seen quickly enough and it can be a long time before anything is resolved.
I think Alex made it clear she was sent for lots of tests, which is great, but the rant is more about his frustrations at him and his nan not understanding what was going on - they shouldn't have to chase for appointments as well. if this was done and things were explained to them both, perhaps he wouldn't be so angry and his nan wouldn't feel so scared about what is or isn't wrong with her.
Just my thoughts anyway, it was interesting to see your comments though and feel free to send me a rant on people slagging the NHS off!
Just quoting this as an example of the sentiment I don't agree with, not replying personally!
I'm 25 and am very similar problems. Chasing up appointments? You what? I was in hospital just before Christmas last year, and was told that they would see me again at the end of January/start of Feb. It is now mid September, and despite repeated chasing up from me, my GP, and also another department in the same hospital, I am still waiting for that appointment.
On explanations? That too. I had a chest x-ray last august that showed a shadow in my lung. I went on to have a CT scan and then a repeat xray in November that showed it was still there. They recommended I have a repeat scan when I was admitted in December. I was fobbed off, not with 'it's because of your age' but with 'you just need to eat properly and exercise'. The repeat scan never happened, and at no point anywhere did anyone explain, despite me asking over and over, what the hell the thing in my lung is, or why it's there. I am due to have my scan next week, 9 months late, only because the doctor from the other department, who has nothing to do with it, has taken it upon himself to do, because he thinks if he doesn't, it won't get done.
Sometimes people are let down by the system. It's easy to say it's because of her age, but to be honest I don't agree. I know lots of people who've had fantastic experiences with the NHS and lots who feel they've been let down. And there are just as many, if not more young people in the 'let down' category. It's a shame that anyone has a bad experience, it really is, but no system is perfect, and I just don't think it's helpful to be slinging about accusations of ageism, or any ism.
look at america for example, they have to pay for medical treatment
for all the cons, i`m sure there`s a pro