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question about anti-abortionists
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I was just wondering, anti-abortionists who say that abortions are against nature so its wrong ect....does that mean they're against IVF treatment, especially for post-menopausal women? Because it's un-natural conceiving? Or is it just killing babies that they don't like?
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Why not, we will abort a foetus...?
Yep killing babies is supported by the NHS but helping people who want some having one shouldn't... :yeees:
Well NHS does provide abortion innit...
Depends at what level you consider a baby a baby... I think that's why you don't get me here... I assume for you a baby is a baby when it is born only... When for me it is before.... And ok maybe it's not killing, it's termination which is basically the same... All I am saying is that if abortion is supported by the NHS I don't see why IVF shouldn't...
IVF treatment is nothing of the sort. At the most, it allows a woman the chance to have a treatment that one day might just lead to pregancy.
As I said, if we can afford both that's fine by me. But if someone suggests whether we should have to choose between the two, the choice is clear.
No access to safe, legal abortion maims, injures and kills women around the world, even today. About 200 women a day the WHO predicts. For those who can afford to pay over £500 for MVA under 14 weeks gestation, they can go privately. For those who can't, some are lucky to wait about 2 weeks for a referral. Others aren't. I have heard stories from women who have waited up to 13 weeks between seeing their GP and having the abortion on the NHS. So the system is by no means perfect for them, but it's necessary as they wouldn't have been able to afford the funds either way. If you look to Northern Ireland, a lot of women who can't afford to cross the channel are forced to continue pregnancies they don't want, if they haven't already attempted to do something dangerous themselves. I wouldn't wish an unwanted pregnancy on anyone.
Now, this is obviously a very sensitive subject, but while the journey to having a baby can be painful, frustrating, expensive etc, it's not a situation where every day that goes by is a day closer to a 'legal limit' as such. It's not a situation where someone may do very dangerous things to themselves to have control of their bodies back. 200 women are dying a day because they have no choice, it may be crass of me to say (and I'm not expecting an answer to this), but how many people die a day because of no access to aided fertility provisions. Relationships may crumble, certainly, but I don't see it as a life/death issue.
Terminating an unwanted pregnancy guarentees the end of pregnancy. IVF is not certain, is very expensive and has variable failure rates. I'm not saying it should be charged for on the NHS, but abortion care is a whole different issue, and needs to take precidence, because the system at the moment needs vast improvement to those who have no choice but to use the NHS. I think it's important to separate the issue of abortion with assisted conception, because it breeds a lot of negative feelings to those who terminate pregnancies for very valid reasons. Of course it's unfair, life is unfair, but it's not their fault that others might need help along the way.
In a perfect world, I'd happily see couples having access to both TOP provisions and assisted conception provisions without money being an issue.
Although TBH with that kind of thinking I'd be surprised if your woman would get far enough away from the sink inorder to concieve in the first place...!
And in the 'unnatural' event of shoulder dystocia/meconium aspiration/cord prolapse?
some women want to do it natural, some want to be on as much painkillers as possible. I don't see how a natural birth makes it any better...as long as the baby is delivered safely and is well - what does it matter?
I think specifically to abortion, 'pro-life' is one of the biggest misnomers out there, I'd be happy to see it change.