If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options
The British Left's Solution for "Terrorism Root Cause"
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Jenny Tonge is a Liberal Democrat member of the British parliament, makes the solution clear. It is the existence of the "apartheid wall", which is forcing suicide bombers to export themselves to Iraq. Remove the "apartheid wall", and they will no longer feel obliged to travel so far in order to self combust. Jenny Tonge in her inelegant has made the best case ever for the Israeli security fence.
The Barrier works, then.
London mayor, Livingstone says suicide bombers are justified because they don't have jet fighters (i.e. demand outstripping supply), and now Tonge justifies it as an export-led push for growth (supply outstripping demand). Can they both be right? Is there an arbitrage market for suicide bombers?
Jenny Tonge in January 2004 said that she would consider becoming a suicide bomber if she were Palestinian (and subsequently led a minute's silence in March — in the House of Commons no less — for the deceased Hamas leader Sheikh Yassin, who issued orders for dozens of suicide attacks against Israeli civilians). Tonge sacked over suicide comment by the Liberal Democrat party leader as parliamentary spokesman for children's issues for these remarks, but later she was promoted to be a "Baroness".
From the Indie's letters page:
On 7/7 London bombing comments, Jenny Tonge tried out a variation on her favourite 'it's Israel's fault' trope on the ITV News Channel. Saying that the main cause of the London suicide bombs is the UK’s support for Israel. And "As soon as anyone says anything that is mildly sympathetic to the Palestinians, they are accused of anti-Semitism. "
The Barrier works, then.
http://comment.independent.co.uk/letters/article707635.ece
Letters: The Independent
Published: 08 June 2006
Roots of suicide bombing in Iraq
Sir: It should come as no surprise to anyone that suicide bombers in Iraq are Palestinians (robert Fisk "Iraq: the face of the enemy", 7 June). Israel's security wall is forcing them to export themselves to another arena to fight in this ridiculous "war" against terrorism being waged by the donkeys who lead us in the West.
The injustices to Palestinians, following the creation of the state of Israel and the subsequent brutal occupation by that country lies at the very roots of the causes of terrorism and the ideology of Osama bin Laden. In desperate attempts not to be accused of anti-Semitism, our leaders refuse to accept this and carry on supporting the USA and its military base in the Middle East called Israel.
If someone in power does not do something to restore Palestine, even if only to acknowledge that Israel must withdraw to the pre 1967 borders, and allow the Palestinians to form a viable country, we shall have no peace.
BARONESS JENNY TONGE
London mayor, Livingstone says suicide bombers are justified because they don't have jet fighters (i.e. demand outstripping supply), and now Tonge justifies it as an export-led push for growth (supply outstripping demand). Can they both be right? Is there an arbitrage market for suicide bombers?
Jenny Tonge in January 2004 said that she would consider becoming a suicide bomber if she were Palestinian (and subsequently led a minute's silence in March — in the House of Commons no less — for the deceased Hamas leader Sheikh Yassin, who issued orders for dozens of suicide attacks against Israeli civilians). Tonge sacked over suicide comment by the Liberal Democrat party leader as parliamentary spokesman for children's issues for these remarks, but later she was promoted to be a "Baroness".
From the Indie's letters page:
Sir: Whilst I would not condone the murder of Jenny Tonge MP, I understand why people out there might want to kill her.
MICHAEL METLISS
London NW3
On 7/7 London bombing comments, Jenny Tonge tried out a variation on her favourite 'it's Israel's fault' trope on the ITV News Channel. Saying that the main cause of the London suicide bombs is the UK’s support for Israel. And "As soon as anyone says anything that is mildly sympathetic to the Palestinians, they are accused of anti-Semitism. "
0
Comments
Why? Do you think that's not the case?
Britain isn't a strong supporter of Israel. At the UN and such the only countries that reliably vote with Israel are the US, Australia and er Micronesia and the Marshall Islands I think. The EU as a bloc (inc Britain) almost always vote against Israel. Britain, after the US I'm pretty sure is the biggest donor to the Palestinians - collectively the EU gives the most. Tbh I think Jenny Tonge would only say the UK is not biased in favour of Israel if it adopted the same line as Hamas. (Tonge was devestated when Hamas leader Sheikh Yassin died, Yassin ordered many suicide bomb attacks and even deliberately calculated attacks to kill as many children as possible. Bit odd really, why would an apparently liberal person - Tonge being a LibDem, support Hamas - one of the most illiberal organisations on the planet? Hamas advocating violence and terror, defending wife beating and holding extreme racist and homophobic ideals. Maybe Tonge isn't that liberal, there's nothing liberal about supporting Islamofascists).
It's a lot more plausible anyway to argue a link between the Iraq War and 7/7 than claim some hazy link between lukewarm British support for Israel and 7/7. If supporting democracy in the Middle East and defending Israel suddenly makes you a target for terrorism I guess Micronesia and the Marshall Islands really better watch out. :rolleyes:
I do of course support a Palestinian state in accordance with the Roadmap to Peace. If it is to happen it is through the Israelis withdrawing from much of the West Bank, as they already have from Gaza and the Palestinians disarming their terrorist groups. Regardless though it's naive to believe the materialisation of a Palestinian state is going to be the solution for the terrorism we face from al Qaeda and such. Something worth noting about al Qaeda really is how little they mention Israel/Palestine and their enemy is more regularly defined as 'crusading Christians' (US/Europe) rather than Israel.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html
Actually, Aladdin, anti-Semitism has long been a feature of the loony wing of the Left. It's an especialy favorite of upper-class college kids, being Liberal Until Graduation, who see in the Palestinians' cause a handy cover for their longstanding personal dislike of Jews.
On the R4 Today show January 23, 2004 Tongue was arguing with Louise Ellman MP (Lab, Liverpool Riverside) saying to her she shouldn't have advanced a particular argument "because you come from a jewish background" Suspect that what she was trying to say was that as the Jews are the paradigm of the suffering people, they should understand that they should only oppose palestinian terrorism in a non violent manner. Or something like that.
But I'm troubled by the fact that Tonge is apparently accepted as a mainstream representative of British public opinion. I am also concerned by the Euroappeasing and antisemitic trends that can be observed in the Independent newspaper, which appears to share much of the LibDem political programme, and by the way that this publication is seen by a supposedly educated and informed British elite as something to be admired and read and encouraged. One would have thought that the BBC would be enough.
Not really. Tonge is an ex-LibDem MP who was sacked and is now in the Lords. She's hardly a high profile figure...And the LibDems are the third smallest party. (The fourth biggest British political party in Europe being overtaken by UKIP).
The Independent has a very low circulation. The Telegraph is comfortably the best selling quality newspaper, followed by the Times. The Guardian and Independent have struggled for years. (And the Telegraph and Times both take a pragmatic and sensible approach towards the Middle East). Anyway the BBC is pretty bad these days. Sky News and CNN have overtaken the BBC really.
I have never, ever encountered, heard of or read about a single incident of 'anti-semitism' from 'the Left' (whoever they might be).
Unless you are suggesting that people demanding Israel complies with international law, returns the stolen land and stop shooting children counts as anti-semitism.
I guess you're unfamiliar with many of the elements within Respect which most people would identify as part of the far-left. Good article here too.
Yvonne Ridley, famously promised that 'Zionists' would be 'hunted down and kicked out' of the Respect party. Funny, why did she make no specific mention of say, supporters of the Baathist regime?
Where have you been? No anti-Semitism on the left. What about the SWP inviting anti-Semite Gilad Atzmon to their annual festival? Funny too how Respect leader George Galloway specifically targeted Louise Ellman and Oona King...The election campaign involving the latter and Galloway was disgusting.
Criticism of Israel in itself is not anti-Semitic and I have never heard anybody in recent years directly associate opposition to Israel with anti-Semitism. (Although Martin Luther King did many years ago).
It does however imply anti-Semitism to disproportionately single out Israel. Advocating an academic boycott of Israel for instance or boycotting Israeli products is anti-Semitic in the manner it is conducted.
Supporters of such boycotts claim they relate to Israel's human rights record. Why no boycott of China? They're still happy to buy cheap DVD players produced in sweat shops from a country occupying Tibet, bullying Taiwan, oppressing and torturing opponents...Or Saudi Arabia? I guess these people wouldn't manage long without using oil... Or Iran for its persecution of Sunni Muslims, Christians and Zoroastrians? I know you support boycotting Israel Aladdin, or used to - how do you explain the inconsistency?
If you boycott Israel but don't boycott China - even though China's human rights record is infinitely worse it's not unreasonable to ask why Israel is getting special treatment. I wish it wasn't true but if Tibetans were being oppressed by Jews the rest of the world would kick up a lot bigger fuss and you know it.
What the fuck are you on about now? Are you saying Palestinian terrorists distinguish between combatants and non-combatants to target the former? Er well they don't, they almost exclusively target the latter. Suicide bombs and rocket attacks into towns target civilians and kill civilians.
Palestinian suicide bombers indiscriminately target innocent people. Since they often target buses they've killed a disproportionate number of young and elderly people and the poor who don't have access to a car. Suicide bombers have killed Jews, Muslims and Christians; workers and tourists. While Yassin was alive for Hamas in suicide bombings he orchestrated he also deliberately targeted children. Actually I guess you're right, they do care who their target is...innocent people in a shopping mall, on a bus to work, in a club.
What I was on about had nothing to do with the rest of your rant.
What I mean was that Palestinians hardly just think "oh so I can't attack Israel now, lets go bomb Iraq" It's fucking ludacrious to think such a thing.
Well there's some pretty clear cases of anti-Semitism within Respect/SWP...
Labels like left wing and right wing are obviously flawed. Just as someone on the right of the Conservative party has nothing in common with someone on the 'far-right' as in the BNP, many people describing themselves as left wing I am sure have little in common with elements of the 'far-left' such as Respect/SWP. (Political compass thing covers it)
However, assuming that Respect/SWP is part of the far-left (and many of their policies are left wing even if it is jumbled up with islamofascism) the left cannot really deny that elements under a left wing banner have some very nasty elements...(Not limited to anti-Semitism either).
Ohhh, I see your point..Sorry mate. Yes, I would actually agree with you. :eek2:
First there was Jenny Tonge who spoke out against Israel and the party rewarded her with a platform in the Lords. A much stronger soap box than her former MP’s seat where at least she had to stand for election. What will Sir Menzie be saying to Mr Davies? We hope it is not an offer to become the second LibDem anti-Israel parliamentarian forced to quit and then compensated with ennoblement.
i'd say i'm left wing, and i'm not anti-semetic, i have a complete indifference to race, as we're all human anyway
i think the wall is an utter joke and forces ghettos to form, which in turn makes the areas with loads of palestinians poorer and with more unemployed pissed off men
what do you think they land up doing, they sign up for people who promise them things cough suicide bomber leaders
I'm not sure all left-wingers are anti-semitic, or even a majority. However there is a substantial group who get confused between Judaism and Israel.
I'm not sure that being unemployed forces you into joining Islamic Jihad as a potential suicide bomber, as a job 'suicide bomber' doesn't pay well or have great prospects.
we have had mathematicians and engineers. scientists and lecturers.
please don't fall into the trap of believing these people are mostly brainwashed gullible nowt else to do kind of people.
Not sure, not at all sure.
It did make me chuckle, though.