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Saturdays!

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Hi. I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice. Here goes...

I work in a large department store. I'm full-time and have worked there for over 4 years. When I joined the company I was told (verbally) that I would be working Monday through to Friday with the Weekend off. Not surprisingly, management in retail come and go and that particular person has long left the company. I signed a contract which stated how many hours I would work per week but did not state which days.

I got promoted in Junior Management a couple of years ago and got a new contract. The amount of hours changed and I also became salaried. Again, it didn't state which days of the week I would work. So the last two years I've still been working Mon - Fri working the very odd Saturday (ie. 1 every 3 months) as favours.

We've got a new Store Manager on board and he wants me to work virtually every Saturday from now on which, for a number of reasons, I really don't want to do. I told him this but I got a 'needs of the business' reply. So, is he allowed to do this? Is there a minimum amount of notice he has to give me?

Unfortunately, I don't have children (to use as an excuse not to work!). Is there any other reason I can give that he has to accept?

Sorry it's a bit of a read. Any help appreciated!

city_boy

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You could tell him that it amounts to constructive dismissal if they force you to leave by changing your contracted work period, but that would only really work if your contract as it is excludes saturdays.

    Chat to ACAS or whatnot.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Even if the written contract doesn't exclude saturdays, hopefully th efact that he's regularly not worked saturdays and regularly been paid means that it was accepted as a contractual term... maybe?

    What about a random religion that means you can't work on a saturday?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Chat to ACAS, but I would suspect that your contract of employment will contain a clause that will state that you are required to work different hours should the needs of the business require it.

    I'd be fishing for a pay rise to cover the anti-social hours tbh. That's normally the best way of scaring people off.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks for the advice. I worked today as a gesture, as the store manager has only been in the store just over a week. At the end of the day I spoke to him. He gave me three options:
      Work Saturday
      Get demoted and continue with Mon-Fri
      Leave

    So, I've decided that I've spent the last 4 1/2 years working for a piss-take company who don't give a shit about their staff. Now...to find a new job, which is kind of scary as I've been working for the same company since I was 17.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    city_boy wrote:
    Thanks for the advice. I worked today as a gesture, as the store manager has only been in the store just over a week. At the end of the day I spoke to him. He gave me three options:
      Work Saturday
      Get demoted and continue with Mon-Fri
      Leave

    So, I've decided that I've spent the last 4 1/2 years working for a piss-take company who don't give a shit about their staff. Now...to find a new job, which is kind of scary as I've been working for the same company since I was 17.

    That's rubbish! I would've thought that when you work, your hours are clearly set out. Can't you say that you have another job on a Saturday so you can't work on Saturday?
    What about a random religion that means you can't work on a saturday?

    Interesting idea...
    I would suspect that your contract of employment will contain a clause that will state that you are required to work different hours should the needs of the business require it.

    But doesn't the OP have the right to refuse to work certain days? (This is what my mum can do I think, but for her it's not just 'I don't want to work tonight'; it's always 'I'm already working somewhere else so I can't help you')
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's one of those things that come with being management (even if you have avoided it mostly for the past two years). It does seem a bit off to make you work every Saturday (or near enough), especially if there is any disparity between which hours/days you and the other junior managers work.

    Are other members of the junior management team being requested to significantly change their hours?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, it is a retail job isn't it? Surely, to be management in retail you need to accept that you will have to work at least one day at the weekend. It's shit, but that's the deal with that sector of work, you can't honestly say you're surprised that a shop needs their managers to work at on Saturdays.

    In purely operational terms, I agree with this - it's fairly obvious that, if you're moving up in a retail chain - your hours might change.

    I do however also think that the shop went a poor way about it, there was a lot of take and no give. Probably a good choice to move on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Unless it states the days in your contract you cant do anythin!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    That's rubbish! I would've thought that when you work, your hours are clearly set out.

    Unlikely. Few people have their hours set out in their contract, and even if they do, most contracts of employment contain a clause which states the employer can change the hours to suit the needs of the business.

    My firm are imposing mandatory overtime during a busy spell using the same clause.
    But doesn't the OP have the right to refuse to work certain days?

    Not really, no.

    If the OP is the only one being forced to amend his hours to work Saturdays, then he would have a cause for complaint re: constructive dismissal. But if his senior management are simply revoking an agreement that the other staff on his grade do not enjoy then really the OP will have to lump it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, it is a retail job isn't it? Surely, to be management in retail you need to accept that you will have to work at least one day at the weekend. It's shit, but that's the deal with that sector of work, you can't honestly say you're surprised that a shop needs their managers to work at on Saturdays.

    Yes, I know what you're saying, I understand peak trade in retail.
    I worked in retail for years, and it annoyed me when people who I worked with objected to being asked to work in a Saturday - yes it is shit, especially when your partner works Monday to Friday as mine did - but everyone else has to do it so I don't see why one person should get exceptional treatment because they like their weekends off. .

    My frustration with the company was that I had always worked during the week. The structure at my store is that I work during the week actually managing the Sales Floor and two weekend 'Team Leaders' (p/t students) do the same but Sat and Sun. Due to the busyness of weekends they just 'maintain' the store rather than 'manage', which, to be honest, can be done by most of our long-term staff.

    Although I didn't mention it in my original post, the main reason I did not want to work Saturday was due to a family member being very ill and it gives me the oppotunity to visit often (I live a 4hr round trip away). I told my Manager this when I spoke to him. As a member of mangement, I'm used to using my discretion with staff re: working hours due to compassion, religion, study, work experience etc and we make exceptions. It's the fact he cannot do this for me, or to be honest, even looked into making an effort to do so, that has really pissed me off.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It sounds like you are better off out! Get a better job that leaves your Saturdays free and then tell him to stick his job.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Randomgirl wrote:
    It sounds like you are better off out! Get a better job that leaves your Saturdays free and then tell him to stick his job.

    Agreed.
    Although I didn't mention it in my original post, the main reason I did not want to work Saturday was due to a family member being very ill and it gives me the oppotunity to visit often (I live a 4hr round trip away). I told my Manager this when I spoke to him. As a member of mangement, I'm used to using my discretion with staff re: working hours due to compassion, religion, study, work experience etc and we make exceptions. It's the fact he cannot do this for me, or to be honest, even looked into making an effort to do so, that has really pissed me off.

    That's really unfair. It's not as if you've told your manager 'I just don't want to work Saturdays' and not give a suitable reason.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well the fact that you're looking for an excuse to not work saturdays tells me that theres no real reason for you not being able to work them other than that you dont want to. Well why not? more hours = more money and if not you should at least get a different day off in the week (as well as sunday).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    icey wrote:
    Well the fact that you're looking for an excuse to not work saturdays tells me that theres no real reason for you not being able to work them other than that you dont want to. Well why not? more hours = more money and if not you should at least get a different day off in the week (as well as sunday).

    He said:
    Although I didn't mention it in my original post, the main reason I did not want to work Saturday was due to a family member being very ill and it gives me the oppotunity to visit often (I live a 4hr round trip away). I told my Manager this when I spoke to him. As a member of mangement, I'm used to using my discretion with staff re: working hours due to compassion, religion, study, work experience etc and we make exceptions. It's the fact he cannot do this for me, or to be honest, even looked into making an effort to do so, that has really pissed me off.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    icey wrote:
    Well the fact that you're looking for an excuse to not work saturdays tells me that theres no real reason for you not being able to work them other than that you dont want to. Well why not? more hours = more money and if not you should at least get a different day off in the week (as well as sunday).

    As well as what TheShyBoyInTheCorner pointed out, my manager said I'd get a 'random' day off in the week ie. not Sun and Mon together. Therefore it does not help my circumstances at all.

    btw, I'm salaried and do not earn overtime. I would still be doing my contracted hours but on a Sat and four weekays rather then Mon - Fri.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Does it really matter what days you have off though? if its helping out the company and often changing from the usual routene (so you wont get bored) then i dont see why its a problem. you could always go and see the family member on whatever day you get off no?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    icey wrote:
    Does it really matter what days you have off though?

    Yes, it does matter. Can you not read?

    I would point out that companies are under a legal obligation to consider family issues when drawing up rotas, and that a change of working hours should be decided after discussion.

    I'd definitely have a word with ACAS about compassionate grounds.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just a quick update. I handed in my notice today and will be gone in a month. To Kermit re: ACAS, I don't really think I have the time (I need all that for jobhunting :crazyeyes ). I need to look at my past employer as experience, turn over a new leaf and look at a change of career direction.

    Thanks for your help :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    city_boy wrote:
    Just a quick update. I handed in my notice today and will be gone in a month. To Kermit re: ACAS, I don't really think I have the time (I need all that for jobhunting :crazyeyes ). I need to look at my past employer as experience, turn over a new leaf and look at a change of career direction.

    Thanks for your help :)

    Good luck with getting a new job :)

    Leaving a job without a new job to go to is not particularly wise (however desperate you are, I've been there...albeit in a different industry), though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good luck with getting a new job :)

    Leaving a job without a new job to go to is not particularly wise (however desperate you are, I've been there...albeit in a different industry), though.

    Oh, I mulled over it for a while but decided if I didn't I would be stuck in a rut. As it is, I'm pretty much prepared to take anything (Mon-Fri!)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    icey wrote:
    Does it really matter what days you have off though? if its helping out the company and often changing from the usual routene (so you wont get bored) then i dont see why its a problem. you could always go and see the family member on whatever day you get off no?
    I think he needs two days in a row off maybe? Or maybe he needs the same work pattern as other members of his family in order to be able to visit his sick relly together.
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