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Climate Change

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Film Trailer - Looks a'right actually

So with all the advances in news over the past year or two, has anybody's opinion on climate change altered?

What do you think are solutions (if any) to the situation? What worries you most about climate change and are we really fucked?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't have a clue how to sort it if I'm honest. I'm still waiting for this switch to hydrogen power which the oil companies are no doubt delaying. I have decided one thing though. I think there should be a cap on any profits made from natural resources. Sure the oil/logging/gas companies provide a service by getting it to us, but how can they just say "this is our oil to sell." Really? Did you make it? No? Then fuck off, it belongs to everyone.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We could start by a few simple points:

    1. Slap a monumentally high tax on gas guzzling cars- other than farmers and those who genuinely have to use them. Nobody needs a supersports car or a Chelsea Tractor to go about their daily business.

    2. End the tax subsidies to the air travel industry and slap an extra tax on short haul flights. Ever growing air travel is rapidly becoming a very important contributing factor to climate change.

    3. On a related note, invest properly, even if we have to put taxes up by a couple of pennies, in the railways. Make them affordable and effective to use, even for European trips.

    4. Promote and fund homeowners installing renewable forms of energy in their homes. Most housesholds will meet all their energy needs by installing solar panels and a small wind turbine. Best of all, they can sell their surplus juice to electricity companies.

    5. Continue to invest in research for alternative, clean fuels and give incentives to those who switch to non-polluting forms of transportation.

    If all the developed countries in the world adopted such measures things could improve rapidly.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    We could start by a few simple points:

    1. Slap a monumentally high tax on gas guzzling cars- other than farmers and those who genuinely have to use them. Nobody needs a supersports car or a Chelsea Tractor to go about their daily business.

    2. End the tax subsidies to the air travel industry and slap an extra tax on short haul flights. Ever growing air travel is rapidly becoming a very important contributing factor to climate change.

    3. On a related note, invest properly, even if we have to put taxes up by a couple of pennies, in the railways. Make them affordable and effective to use, even for European trips.

    4. Promote and fund homeowners installing renewable forms of energy in their homes. Most housesholds will meet all their energy needs by installing solar panels and a small wind turbine. Best of all, they can sell their surplus juice to electricity companies.

    5. Continue to invest in research for alternative, clean fuels and give incentives to those who switch to non-polluting forms of transportation.

    If all the developed countries in the world adopted such measures things could improve rapidly.

    I agree with you there (much more than your comments about the BNP and racists in general)

    To the list I would add, a big expansion in alternative energies, weve got a lot of coast line (Larsest in Europe ?) and a lot of wind, I think with energy economy and large investment in such areas, we could produce a good percenatge of our power form alternative sources.

    In Scotland the Edinburgh/Fife area has a lot of coast line and its always very windy, shorly a good amount of energy could be produced in Fife alone.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have a scientist friend I was chatting to, who says that it's more serious than people believe, and we've done the damage now so it's doubtful that we can even slow the process down, we certainly can't reverse it.

    I'm doing my ostrich routine (puts head in sand).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote:
    I have a scientist friend I was chatting to, who says that it's more serious than people believe, and we've done the damage now so it's doubtful that we can even slow the process down, we certainly can't reverse it.

    I'm doing my ostrich routine (puts head in sand).

    :yes:

    The damage is already done... even if we stopped today global warming will continue to propagate itself now. All we've done is started the ball rolling. At this point we can only try to stop accellerating it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So what we really need is a worldwide revolution really.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    We could start by a few simple points:

    1. Slap a monumentally high tax on gas guzzling cars- other than farmers and those who genuinely have to use them. Nobody needs a supersports car or a Chelsea Tractor to go about their daily business.

    2. End the tax subsidies to the air travel industry and slap an extra tax on short haul flights. Ever growing air travel is rapidly becoming a very important contributing factor to climate change.

    3. On a related note, invest properly, even if we have to put taxes up by a couple of pennies, in the railways. Make them affordable and effective to use, even for European trips.

    4. Promote and fund homeowners installing renewable forms of energy in their homes. Most housesholds will meet all their energy needs by installing solar panels and a small wind turbine. Best of all, they can sell their surplus juice to electricity companies.

    5. Continue to invest in research for alternative, clean fuels and give incentives to those who switch to non-polluting forms of transportation.

    If all the developed countries in the world adopted such measures things could improve rapidly.

    What he said... of course I was thinking all that myself :p

    Though, like piccolo said, it's looking like even if we implemented all of those measures this afternoon it'd still be too little, too late.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its natural. Earth has heated up and cooled down thousands of time in its history.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://www.oism.org/news/s49p419.htm
    In signing the petition within a period of less than six weeks, the 15,000 basic and applied scientists expressed their profound skepticism about the science underlying the Kyoto accord. The available atmospheric data simply do not support the elaborate computer-driven climate models that are being cited by the United Nations and other promoters of the accord as "proof" of a major future warming.
    "The treaty is, in our opinion, based upon flawed ideas. Research data on climate change do not show that human use of hydrocarbons is harmful. To the contrary there is good evidence that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is environmentally helpful."
    The contributors and reviewers of the 1996 report by the U.N.-sponsored Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) actually numbered less than 2,000, and only a small fraction who were never even polled can claim to be climate scientists.
    In 1992, more than 4,000 scientists worldwide signed the Heidelberg appeal to heads of states who were meeting in Rio de Janeiro to approve a Framework Convention on Climate Change; the appeal warned of the inadequate scientific base for such a global treaty.

    another good article:

    http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=718860

    "Bjorn Lomborg is a statistician at the University of Aarhus, Denmark, who once held what he calls “left-wing Greenpeace views”. In 1997, he set out to challenge Julian Simon, an economist who doubted environmentalist claims—and found that the data generally supported Simon."
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with Aladdin. But as others have said this will not stop it, only slow it down.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Climate change is at best disputed.

    However we do need to take some measures to reduce energy consumption.

    a) climate change or no fossil fuels are going to run out one day, better to start moving towards renewable or non-fossil fuels.

    b) Fuel costs money - no and low cost energy efficiency measures can save 20% of a an average companies fuel bill.

    c) As its not proven either way its probably best to err on the side of caution
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Does anyone think we can do what they do in Futurama? Mine a huge chunk of ice out of Haileys Comet and drop it in the North Pole to maintain a cooler environment?

    Who else thinks Al Gore rocks? He should have been president. He may not be Clinton but he is close enough for me!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    Does anyone think we can do what they do in Futurama? Mine a huge chunk of ice out of Haileys Comet and drop it in the North Pole to maintain a cooler environment?

    How big a hole would this create in the Ozone Layer? And the ice would melt as it enters the atmosphere....

    Was this a serious question?
    :crazyeyes

    Should we kill all the cows because of the ammount of methane they are releasing into the air?
    How much does Lynx contribute to the destruction of the Ozone Layer?

    Is there treatment for what I've got!!
    :eek2:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The cost of implementing Kyoto has been gigantic – and the benefits of Kyoto are at best doubtful. Climate change as has been pointed out is at best disputed. – If something is happening however Kyoto is not the solution. For a start if America, China and India aren’t involved it’s meaningless. And there is no credible proof that the billions Britain spends meeting its Kyoto target will do anything to stop ‘global warming.’

    Say the global warming theory is entirely accurate, Britain emits 3% of the world’s carbon dioxide emissions – what is shaving a bit off that figure going to do? It’s going to cost billions and what difference will it make? The US emits 25% of the world’s emissions, China is fast catching up and could eventually exceed the US. Rather than spending billions on some scheme that probably in the long run won’t make any difference we need to think about how to cope with the effects and consequences of the global warming theory if its advocates are proven right. Taking a few 4x4s off the road and shutting a few factories down in Britain isn’t going to save the world.

    Given the urgent need of the West to reduce its reliance on fossil fuels and Middle Eastern oil in particular we need to develop other forms of energy – that need and the eventual transition to renewable energy will reduce emissions more than any expensive treaty. Money spent reducing emissions would be far better spent working out how to adapt to climate change if it happens and on finding alternative forms of energy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I just find it terrifying that states such as the United States and China are putting short term selfish interests ahead of the long term interests of the planet. :(
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyone thinks my comment refering to Futurama was serious has lost all my respect!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe we should shoot the person
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Renzo wrote:
    I just find it terrifying that states such as the United States and China are putting short term selfish interests ahead of the long term interests of the planet. :(

    Well DUH. MONEYS to be made. :rolleyes:

    Yeah, those two won't change 'cos no one can pressure the big two! Two biggest armies in the world...

    So yeah, we are fucked. Those tossers think about their money and not the next generation.
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