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Why it is right to bomb...
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I thought I'd ahre this with you. I have just visited www.urban75.com - a haven for steelgate and his cronies. They seem to think that bombing the US was okay becuase Bin Laden was justified but that the US counterstrike is murder of innocent civilians. Guess it riled me a bit. So I posted the following...
Dialogue can only happen when BOTH parties want it. Bin Laden wants western civilisation extinguished. That includes all you...Not much middle ground there, is there?
I have become seriously fucked of with trying to be the nice guys, to play things like gentlemen. I'm tired of sitting down with the IRA (and the Loyalists) when we could have wiped them out years ago, if we'd had the balls. I'm tired of watching innocent civilians die in the name of 'freedom' and then reading people finding excuses for why these actions were taken - I thought you believed it was NEVER right to kill an innocent. I'm sick of having my baggage checked everytime I fly, just because some moron might have a bomb. I'm sick of security checks when I go into London, becuase I may be carrying an Irish bomb. I'm sick of reading about bombs in Spain, becuase ETA feel that it is acceptable to kill tourists, in order to gain their 'freedom'. I'm sick of it all, I want to be free of it and if that means we oppress those who believe in terrorism then that's fine by me.
You either fight terrorism or you are a terrorist. Choice is yours...
I understand why Bin Laden acts the way he does, I understand why the IRA fight but I am fucked if I am going to defend their right to life when they have no thought for mine. Fuck 'em, if they want to fight, let's fight. Only we will do it on OUR terms, not theirs...
Anyway, you can expect Steelgate to arrive soon with details of a peace march in London tomorrow. Aparently they object to the war being fought in their name, and will demonstrate against it. Naturally you can assume that they will be speaking on behalf of the workers of the world and the Afghan civilians although they won't have consulted either - and will fail to see the irony in that!
I guess that sometimes it does me good to vent my spleen. Thank you for listening <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
"Perhaps my best years are gone, but I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now." - Samuel Beckett
Dialogue can only happen when BOTH parties want it. Bin Laden wants western civilisation extinguished. That includes all you...Not much middle ground there, is there?
I have become seriously fucked of with trying to be the nice guys, to play things like gentlemen. I'm tired of sitting down with the IRA (and the Loyalists) when we could have wiped them out years ago, if we'd had the balls. I'm tired of watching innocent civilians die in the name of 'freedom' and then reading people finding excuses for why these actions were taken - I thought you believed it was NEVER right to kill an innocent. I'm sick of having my baggage checked everytime I fly, just because some moron might have a bomb. I'm sick of security checks when I go into London, becuase I may be carrying an Irish bomb. I'm sick of reading about bombs in Spain, becuase ETA feel that it is acceptable to kill tourists, in order to gain their 'freedom'. I'm sick of it all, I want to be free of it and if that means we oppress those who believe in terrorism then that's fine by me.
You either fight terrorism or you are a terrorist. Choice is yours...
I understand why Bin Laden acts the way he does, I understand why the IRA fight but I am fucked if I am going to defend their right to life when they have no thought for mine. Fuck 'em, if they want to fight, let's fight. Only we will do it on OUR terms, not theirs...
Anyway, you can expect Steelgate to arrive soon with details of a peace march in London tomorrow. Aparently they object to the war being fought in their name, and will demonstrate against it. Naturally you can assume that they will be speaking on behalf of the workers of the world and the Afghan civilians although they won't have consulted either - and will fail to see the irony in that!
I guess that sometimes it does me good to vent my spleen. Thank you for listening <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
"Perhaps my best years are gone, but I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now." - Samuel Beckett
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Comments
They have the same hypocracy as Steelgate..Vehemently against the bombing of innocents in Afghanistan but the murder of 7000 innocents in America was ok because their govt is evil..
"Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
Now come on boys and girls, we have our diferences but lets keep it above the belt shall we? <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif">
Do remember that 'we' are individuals and do not all think alike.
Very very few people on U75 condoned the attacks. very few. Most, where quite outraged when the news broke (not so different from here then)
I mean
you people wouldnt want to deny me the ability to have my own opinions
now would you
The difference here is that while we may insult each other, we do at least also argue and put across the alternate point.
It is good to see that Steelgate is as disliked on U75 as here on THESITE.
"Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
No, we will leave that to the people you are defending - the Afghan Govt. It must be lovely living under that regime - especially for a woman. You should feel an affinity there...
I certainly am happy for you to have your own opinions. I have sai this many times about other people - I would fight for your right to have and voice an opinion, even if I don't agree with it. I would even fight for a racist to be allowed to voice his opinion.
And that is where we differ byny - you wouldn't fight for you own voice - let alone mine.
As for dodgy members of urban75 - I don't think I have accused them of that. I just pointed out that I disagreed with them. I read to many wolly liberal approaches to a serious problem - the "why don't we go the whole hog and organise an action group to start a petition against the Taliban" kind of solution...
"Perhaps my best years are gone, but I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now." - Samuel Beckett
"Bush and Blair are INTERNATIONAL CRIMINALS, this is the greatest crime since the holocaust. War crimes, murder, lies, hypocrisy. I am absolutely livid about this. Bastards, bastards, bastards"
So on the basis that some bombs had been dropped the poster thinks that that compares to the holocaust, what an insult, it beggers belief.
That's the reason I don't bother posting there anymore.
peacefrog
[This message has been edited by peacechild (edited 08-10-2001).]
what do you think I'm doing arguing with you!
You had your way - I'd be out there being shot in a field or something
no chance to use my voice then!
But where did you get the right to air those views. I guarantee you that it wasn't a result of a few letters to the Guardian...people died and killed to earn that voice for you and they passed it on in the belief that you would use it wisely...
Like I said before, you are happy to use the right but you will only go so far to defend it. That saddens me, it saddens me that you do not feel that the right to 'free speech' is worth more than a placard and petition...
"Perhaps my best years are gone, but I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now." - Samuel Beckett
You're damn right we need a rational code of morality and ethics. But not much progress can be made in that direction while we've still got a majority ranting about gods, devils, souls, and absolute morality, and using an ancient book written by ignorant nomads as a guide.
We should nuke them and get it over with. The terrorists are using weapons of mass destruction against us, we should do the same.
Because like it was said earlier about checking bags and things, I don't want to have to live through that, and I certainly don't want to have to check all my post looking for anthrax either!
What I am trying to say is My right to refuse to kill another person, is a right I am prepared to defend.
I do not believe in Killing other people - I will not do it, and I will not let a government, organisation or army walk all over me and force me to be in a position where I am asked to kill another person.
You wanna do it - go ahead, how can I stop you? But I do have control over my life and what I want to do
Erm, I think that is the same mentality they hold.
"That saddens me, it saddens me that you do not feel that the right to 'free speech' is worth more than a placard and petition..."
Yer! Kick the crap out of every thing! Fecking right on! I wana protest with violence, so I fecking will!
Is that what you are saying?
Infact if I had a nuclear bomb I'd set it off right in the middle of Cardiff High street!
Lets just blast the world and all thats in it to pieces.
Who cares - after all we are SO civilised!!
In my dreams
now now children, we all know that Cardiff High street is not a very good strategic target, blowing up a dam or 2 would cause far greater devestation!
I'm not defending the Afghan governmet (the Taleban I suppose you mean)
I'm defending the poor starving people of Afghanistan who are going to starve and die this winter.
And I'm 31 - not a child
Which of course can be blamed entirely on the US bombing, rather than on three years of drought, 20 years of civil war and the actions of the ruling organisation - the Taliban.
Whilst most lefties were totally shocked and horrified by the WTC disaster and are outraged by the bombings in Afghanistan-the right wingers think its some big Rambo video game where Afghani casualties are "propaganda" and are irrelevent.
I really find this "war" hard to stomach-like Mike Tyson going 10 rounds with a 5 year old while the crowd cheers-truly sad.
I'm saying that perhaps now the USA can continue to help the Afghanistans with aid (As they did before the war) rather than make it much much worse for them by flattening the country.
Anyone see Tony Bennon Question time? He was Brilliant.
Not quite sure what you mean by 'boarders'.
As a right winger, I dont give a damn if a hundred thousands Taliban troops and supporters die in horrific pain..means nothing to me....Civilians dying, however, is as disgusting to me as it is to you..If you think that I dont feel for the poor people in the refugee camps and the people being killed by US bombs then you are very much mistaken.
The difference between us is that I realise that there is no better way to achieve the objectives.
byny, I saw him last night..He seemed very passionate and it was a shame to see him telling such blatant lies..I thought the point about the US having send ZERO aid to afghanistan before the 11th was particularly amusing. Its also a shame he couldnt actually answer the questions put to him and instead just read off a piece of paper he had scripted before the show.
"Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
He was particually hard on the moslem guy asking for special treatment of islam, that was good. Only managed to catch the last 15 mins or so as I'd been to teh pub. Benn was an excellent politician, although i disagree with just about everything he stood for.
Now take away the US bombing. Would there still be starving people in Afghanistan - bearing in mind they were starving BEFORE the US started bombing.
Programmes like Question time, that thing with Nicky Campbell, discussions with people who seem to have the opposite view to my own really do help to open up all the options and thrash out all the pros and cons.
I'd like to think that I am not completely unable to see around the situation and change my opinion.
For example - at first I believed that the Taleban had actually meant well when they halted all Opium/heroin production, now I think they were infact planning to drive up the price before allowing the production to continue.
I do think that the Taleban need to be stopped and America did give the terrorists enough chances even before the Hijacked planes went into the WTC.
Well done
Whilst at the same time creating a whole new generation of OBLs.
Plus reinforcing the long held view that America is the number one terrorist nation bullying countries across the globe.
Soapbarbpy,
Weve been bombing for a while now and these massive civilian casualties havent materialised yet. The starvation would have happened anyway and would have been a lot worse simply because nobody knew or cared about their plight. At least with all the publicity people are finally aware of what people live like over there and the govts will give more aid.
"Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
I think that bin Laden and the Taleban have been given too many chances and should be stopped. I can't really think of any way to stop them now other than to continue the action that has been taken. Still not sure that we have all the evidence, and hold all the 'superiority' cards (awkwardly put but hope you know what I mean)
I don't want peole to die, and I don't want the USA and allies to have the right to assasinate people - however, something must be done.