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Clash of Civilisations .... an interesting interview
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
An interesting interview by a leading Arab-American psychologist Wafa Sultan.
I saw this clip and was amazed at the woman's courage delivering the interview. I think she deserves to be congratulated for having the courage to make the comments she made.
There might be a short advertisement before the video begins (5mins long)
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2703896?htv=12
Direct Link using Windows Media Player:
http://www.ifilm.com/WMPPlaylist.asx?l=-170157796&ifilmId=2703896&bandwidth=300
A transcript of the important parts of the video clip are below:
Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan: There Is No Clash of Civilizations but a Clash between the Mentality of the Middle Ages and that of the 21st Century
Following are excerpts from an interview with Arab-American psychologist Wafa Sultan. The interview was aired on Al-Jazeera TV on February 21, 2006
.
Wafa Sultan: The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.
[...]
Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?
Wafa Sultan: Yes, that is what I mean.
[...]
Host: Who came up with the concept of a clash of civilizations? Was it not Samuel Huntington? It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue, if you don't mind...
Wafa Sultan: The Muslims are the ones who began using this expression. The Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations. The Prophet of Islam said: "I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger." When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims, and called to fight the others until they believe in what they themselves believe, they started this clash, and began this war. In order to start this war, they must reexamine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.
My colleague has said that he never offends other people's beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people by names that they did not choose for themselves? Once, he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them the "People of the Book," and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians "those who incur Allah's wrath." Who told you that they are "People of the Book"? They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them "those who incur Allah's wrath," or "those who have gone astray," and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others?
I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?
Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...
Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people's beliefs are not your concern, whether they believe that the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people have their beliefs.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.
I saw this clip and was amazed at the woman's courage delivering the interview. I think she deserves to be congratulated for having the courage to make the comments she made.
There might be a short advertisement before the video begins (5mins long)
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2703896?htv=12
Direct Link using Windows Media Player:
http://www.ifilm.com/WMPPlaylist.asx?l=-170157796&ifilmId=2703896&bandwidth=300
A transcript of the important parts of the video clip are below:
Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan: There Is No Clash of Civilizations but a Clash between the Mentality of the Middle Ages and that of the 21st Century
Following are excerpts from an interview with Arab-American psychologist Wafa Sultan. The interview was aired on Al-Jazeera TV on February 21, 2006
.
Wafa Sultan: The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.
[...]
Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?
Wafa Sultan: Yes, that is what I mean.
[...]
Host: Who came up with the concept of a clash of civilizations? Was it not Samuel Huntington? It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue, if you don't mind...
Wafa Sultan: The Muslims are the ones who began using this expression. The Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations. The Prophet of Islam said: "I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger." When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims, and called to fight the others until they believe in what they themselves believe, they started this clash, and began this war. In order to start this war, they must reexamine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.
My colleague has said that he never offends other people's beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people by names that they did not choose for themselves? Once, he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them the "People of the Book," and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians "those who incur Allah's wrath." Who told you that they are "People of the Book"? They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them "those who incur Allah's wrath," or "those who have gone astray," and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others?
I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?
Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...
Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...
Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people's beliefs are not your concern, whether they believe that the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people have their beliefs.
[...]
Wafa Sultan: The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.
0
Comments
Still living in your delusional fantasy world of bigotry and selective awareness I see, Rich Kid...
1994: Jewish settler kills 30 at holy site
more crimes against humanity and property than you shake a stick at
[url=http://www.diplomatictraffic.com/debate_archives.asp?ID=314[/url]Further analysis on Jewish violence, murder and destruction[/url]
Keep fantasizing oh woefully uninformed one.
However, i was some what distressed at the clerik who was supposed to be countering her argument, who flat out refused to do so because she said she was a secular human being an dnot a muslim. As soon as she said it he called her a heratic who was unworthy of his rebuking. If thats the best tht ais offered in counter arguments then the cleriks are not going to get very far with anyone in my opinion.
Back the point made though, i think, and this is purely my own personal opinion mind, that in the case of Islam, it is about heritage, specifically age. Judaism is a very very old religion, Christianity goes back 2000 years but Islam by comparison is still some what young and has yet to mature. Yes in Christianity you get those who take the Bibler as the word of God and not just a book of religion, those who do not question it at all, but i think more people in Christianity do question the Bible, speaking globally of all Christians. As time has gone on and the religion has matured, for lack of a better word, the understanding that holy books are just books written by men, but inspored by God and Faith has come about for the most part. Islam been a somewhat newer and younger religion is still at present at a developing stage rather then a developed stage where belief remains that the Koran is the actial word of God/Allah and can not be questioned as there is no room to question God in anyway shape or form. This of course leading to radical interpretations of God's will or mild interpretations of God's will.
If you’re suggesting that there is little distinction between the (tiny) extreme element within Judaism and fundamentalist Islam (or Islamofascism) you are truly clueless.
Firstly in the truly sad case that you’ve linked to – there was a single man acting alone. Bit different to a group of terrorists? Secondly – that brutal murder was condemned almost universally by Jews and instantly condemned by the Israeli government. There’s a mixed response among Muslims meanwhile to Palestinian suicide bombers – many Muslims have condemned them but many others, even in this country have justified the murderous actions of groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Some Muslim countries meanwhile, Iran being one provide money to the families of suicide bombers.
Now consider this. Anti-Semitic cartoons are published daily in the Arab world – will you see North London Jews destroying kebab shops and Lebanese restaurants? Nope. The Muslim response to the Muhammad cartoon controversy meanwhile…
All religions have extreme elements – but people are rightly far more concerned by the extreme element of Islam. (For a start it’s worryingly large). Secondly it’s the willingness to use violence. Dan Brown offended many Catholics with the Da Vinci Code. Have Catholic countries ordered his death? Compare that to the fatwas against Salmon Rushdie from Muslim countries…Was Dan Brown under constant armed protection following the release of his book? Nope. Will he require armed protection in 15 years time? Since he doesn’t at the moment I somewhat doubt it. Rushdie meanwhile required massive armed protection from the British government for many years because so many Muslims wanted to kill him – indeed even now because of the fanaticism of a large number of Muslims Rushdie cannot go anywhere without security considerations and he still travels with heavy protection.
The broad point made by the Arab-American is entirely accurate.
Or do you deny that women are treated appallingly in much of the Muslim world? That gays are routinely persecuted? The response in the Arab world meanwhile to Salmon Rushdie? The cartoon controversy? You can draw some parallels between the Britain of the 1600s where religious heretics were burnt at the stake and such and the attitudes of some Muslims today.
I'd say so too, sad as it is.
I think Rich Kid's motives are entirely racist, but that doesn't detract from the wider view.
There does seem to be a very pervasive backward element in Islam at the minute, especially with regards to women. For all those who rightly criticise Israel's appalling human rights record, I'd still rather be a woman there than in Saudi Arabia, Libya or Afghanistan.
The worrying thing is that the Americans are responding to this pervasiveness of the backward elements from the Middle East by becoming increasingly backward themselves.
But here's what I think the general drift of this thread is
"Even an Arab defends Israel so they must be in the right"
For some Americans, the likes of the ‘Christian Coalition’ for instance that does seem true. Especially odd since they were among the biggest cheerleaders of the Iraq War criticising Saddam’s record on women and gays.
Really? How’s that work? Israel isn’t the only issue you know. The cartoons controversy, Salmon Rushdie, the Iraq war and arguably al qaeda aren’t really connected with Israel. When Bin Laden talks of ‘crusaders’ he means American and European Christians you know.
Oh and you'll find that few supporters of Israel take the simple approach you think the general drift of this thread is. Likewise I’m sure few of Israel’s critics base their case against Israel on some Jews opposing Israel.
That too then. He's using the opinion of a "secular" Arab to prove his own opinions. Why doesn't he just outright say what he thinks. Why is he using this obscure interview.
My views were made clear earlier, there are too many backwards elements i believe is the phrase already coined, i would have gone with radical elements myself, that are sadly forcing themselves into the mainstream of Islam.
Also, that woman made it very clear, she is not a muslim who supports Israel, she is a secular individual who is NOT muslim, jew or christian.
Another view of the increasingly famous interview
She's right, of course. The Middle East is controlled by a fundamentally backward religious sect, and it's a huge problem. Not least because the US is countering it with its own brand of fundamentally backward religious zeal.
Islam is not a backward faith, but too many of the clerics are. And its a problem.
It's such a shame that the only people briging these topics up are racists like Rich Kid, because its something that needs to be discussed openly.
I doubt that attitudes to women and to homosexuals are much better in strongly Chriistian parts of Africa for example than they are in the Middle East.
I would say that the clash is between the religious and the secualr world.....
If organised religion was given unlimited powers to influence societies and the laws that govern them, as they have had for most of human history, I suspect most countries would very quickly find themselves rather more intolerant and radical than they are now.
He came up with the Clash of the Civlizations theorem, which this is built on. Its quite popular among parts of the State Dept, I'm told.