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NHS deteriorates...

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Well, it has been on all the news channels here in the UK lately, so what does everyone think?

I think the NHS is very much falling apart at the seams. It is a black hole that sucked up £800million but only become worse.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How, pray, has it become worse?

    More operations, delivered quicker.

    A lot of the debt problems are to do with the ludicrous internal market, not helped by toothless PCTs.

    I love the way people always whine that the NHS is getting worse. I'd love to know how the heck they work that one out.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the nhs is shit loads better than it was!..and the envy of most other country's.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The NHS has improved somewhat since 1997 – however given how much extra spending there has been the improvements aren’t particularly significant. There remains massive waste.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    'Debts' are not a concern of mine.

    If the NHS is working (that is, looking after patients) better than it used to be, then it's all that counts.

    Of course that doesn't mean that money can be frivously thrown out of the window, but allegations that the NHS is not managed as well as it should are only secondary to the service it provides. I'd much rather have a wasteful NHS that offers good service than a finanically efficient NHS that neglects patients.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    'Debts' are not a concern of mine.

    If the NHS is working (that is, looking after patients) better than it used to be, then it's all that counts.

    Of course that doesn't mean that money can be frivously thrown out of the window, but allegations that the NHS is not managed as well as it should are only secondary to the service it provides. I'd much rather have a wasteful NHS that offers good service than a finanically efficient NHS that neglects patients.

    The public sector is intrinsically wasteful, bureaucratic and obsessed with redtape. And while abolishing the NHS would be one albeit extreme solution if we’re going to have an NHS it should be at the very minimum financially prudent. The more the NHS wastes the less it can spend on really important things. And a wasteful NHS that gets itself into debt means cuts at some point. The NHS in its present form is untenable anyway, perhaps if it does start to acquire enormous debts politicians will start to explore sustainable alternatives – which is eventually inevitable.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    Well, it has been on all the news channels here in the UK lately, so what does everyone think?

    I think the NHS is very much falling apart at the seams. It is a black hole that sucked up £800million but only become worse.

    I think some of the allegatuions against them are harsh. I think it was harsh of them to think of (i'm not sure if im 100% on this correct me on it if not) putting a stop on smokers using the health service because they increase there risk of cancer and its your fault. It may not have been the exact story.

    I do agree that the service counts more though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Interesting to note the reason why so many NHS trusts are in debt.

    They've done too many operations! How evil is that! Talk about wasting money! Disgrace!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As usual is damned if they do, damned if they don't.

    If an experimental new cancer drug that doesn't work on everyone with the same effectiveness anyway is denied to a woman, then the NHS is accused of 'sentencing people to death' and of postcode lottery.

    And if they give people unlimited drugs and care without concern for the cost, they're wasting money in an unacceptable manner.

    Better do away with the whole lot and get health insurance like the do in the US. Since it works so well there...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    People have being saying the NHS has been falling apart from around about 1949
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's some slow collapse ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    That's some slow collapse ;)

    And what's even more amazing during this slow collapse is that British average lifespan has gone up and infant mortality down :eek2:

    http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf (p8 if you're interested)
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    NQA wrote:
    And what's even more amazing during this slow collapse is that British average lifespan has gone up and infant mortality down :eek2:

    http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf (p8 if you're interested)
    :lol: Yup. Although the NHS isn't as well run as it could be, and was at one point... the technology has kept it going, and masses of cash.

    If it were run more efficiently, it could be leading the world as a healthcare system! It SHOULD be with the Cash, and the Potential....

    So much wated mind.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Financially the NHS has a crisis, but if you want us to invest in long term measure then you will have to accept that the will be short term costs where we have to pay for both aspects.

    You also have to ask how you, as individuals, can help. It might be worth asking yourself if you really need to see a GP, really need to go to A&E etc because there are a number of people who go to A&E with ludicrous problems - like mild sunburn.

    As for services, the NHS hasn't ever delivered so many different services. Access to these services has been getting faster since Labour came in - with no-one waiting in A&E for 48 hours like they did in 1997, no-one waiting two year for surgery after waiting one year for an outpatient appointment and two year for the x-ray [for example].

    It's not perfect, there are some serious quality of care issues, I worry about the standrard of some of our nursing care at times, I really worry about the competances of our managers at times but the difference now is that we actually want to do something about it and believe that we can. That never used to be the case.

    As for politicians directives (which I believe lie at the centre of our financial issues), well the sooner they treat the NHS like they do the Bank of England the better.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If only we were as healthy as the French, then the NHS would be fantastic (not that it hasnt made massive improvements in the past few years).

    But having said that MSF works in France because they dont help those at the very bottom of society.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You do know that the French system is actually in the midst of a bigger crisis...?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You do know that the French system is actually in the midst of a bigger crisis...?

    I thought it was supposed to be really good, or is it all falling apart?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I start by making a confession. I've underestimated how much the NHS has improved over the last couple of years. I got it wrong. The fact is, the NHS is getting better under New Labour, and I happily admit to my mistake. But the financial crisis is clear proof that not everything is going well. With a deficit looming of between £500million and £1billion, it's evidence that something is going wrong. As Tony Blair talked in the Commons, denying there was a crisis, (which in Blairspeak means denying there's anything at all wrong) Royal Cornwall Hospital was announcing that 300 of its staff are being laid off. As always, the chasm between Tony Blair and the real world grows ever wider.

    Sir Nigel Crisp was responsible for some of the mistakes in the last few years. But let's remember who's also in charge of the NHS - yes, Patricia Hewitt, a minister that inspires as much confidence as a dripping tap. Mistakes have been made at local and national level. What I say to those responsible for finance in the health service is, get a grip or hand over to someone who can.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I just think it is the planned cut-backs, ok so the NHS is better then it was in 1997. But what about in a few years when nursing staff is cut, my mum told me she went to gove blood last week and it took her 4 hours because they have decided not to replace any staff who retire, so instead of having 6 people working they had 3. They switched from glass vials to plastic that are less reliable for air bubbles. Ok it is one example, but other hospitals are planning cut backs now. And i thought in the last study of cleanliness they found 98% of hospitals were unsanitary by standards required, not even near as clean as once upon a time.

    I dont know, maybe im wrong.
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