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Can we ever give tooo much aid, or are we tight with our generosity??

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
i dont know, but to me it seems like england is tight, also america and germany, the best economies but a freind told me america first sent approx 60,000 grand to Pakistan, which if anyone else can vouch is an outrage!!

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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    The REAL problem is - Getting that Aid, to the people who need it most.

    Also, we never give enough - but that isn't economically sensible in a capitalist world - why should I give? It is my money, and it buys me luxuries. Fuck everyone else.

    Really, the modern society is terrible, greed-based thing. We should help these people more - as should our Governemnts. But the US can't even help its OWN people in a time of crises.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    we find it so easy to spend billions upon billions on death ...so difficult to spend it on life.
    why?
    surely man longs for peace and security ...so is there something wrong with the actual people who make the decisions?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i was going through sixth form with a bucket, all around it was 'Pakistan Relief Fund', and not for aid, but to build a new school in pakistan were 17,000 kids died because of the fast earthquake, well i was going round, people were making good contributions and i get to one of the richest girls in my school,

    she gives me the dirtiest, low life look iv ever gotten, and just looks away, i couldnt help myself so i fuking went crazy, feeling like an idiot she ran away, but the excuse she later gave me WAS: 'i dont wanna give anything, why should i, its my money', ahhhhhhh, this girl not only works in her fathers long line of business's, but the amount of shops they have, raking in profits, which iv also added toooo, i couldnt belive my ears when she came out with that.

    i saw teachers hidding from me tooo, running away, saying they dont have any change, AT THE CANTEEEN, 'do i look stupid, was that not a 20p coin i saw'?

    i know its the decision of the person but there are alot of cheap, tight people in this country!!
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    What? You didnt honestly expect her to care?

    The Rich like to be Rich. Well, we ALL like having money. It is the only thing that lets us exist in this world. The more we have, the more powerful we are. Why should she care about someone abroad who is dieing? She's fine, afterall.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    What? You didnt honestly expect her to care?

    The Rich like to be Rich. Well, we ALL like having money. It is the only thing that lets us exist in this world. The more we have, the more powerful we are. Why should she care about someone abroad who is dieing? She's fine, afterall.

    Nice sweeping generalisation.

    At times on this board it seems the rich and Christians are made about to be the most unpleasant people in the world – forget criminals and terrorists. Although neither I don't really like the false generalisation. Anybody who’s ever been involved in a charity will know that both groups of mean nasty people are actually often very generous with their time and money. Of course not all rich people are generous and some Christians are tight but there are a lot of rich people out there who donate a lot to good causes, as there are Christians.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At times on this board it seems the rich and Christians are made about to be the most unpleasant people in the world – .
    yes ...if your not an atheist your deemed to be some primitive life form who knows nothing of the modern world ...if your wealthy your obviously a manipulative scum bag who cares for no one ...

    todays beautiful people are leftwing athiests it would seem.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    O.B wrote:
    i was going through sixth form with a bucket, all around it was 'Pakistan Relief Fund', and not for aid, but to build a new school in pakistan were 17,000 kids died because of the fast earthquake, well i was going round, people were making good contributions and i get to one of the richest girls in my school,

    she gives me the dirtiest, low life look iv ever gotten, and just looks away, i couldnt help myself so i fuking went crazy, feeling like an idiot she ran away, but the excuse she later gave me WAS: 'i dont wanna give anything, why should i, its my money', ahhhhhhh, this girl not only works in her fathers long line of business's, but the amount of shops they have, raking in profits, which iv also added toooo, i couldnt belive my ears when she came out with that.

    i saw teachers hidding from me tooo, running away, saying they dont have any change, AT THE CANTEEEN, 'do i look stupid, was that not a 20p coin i saw'?

    i know its the decision of the person but there are alot of cheap, tight people in this country!!
    You can't intimidate people into giving money.

    People are becoming more sophisticated in giving to charity these days, and they want to know exactly how and where their money will be spent, and I think that's reasonable.

    At the end of the day, and this isn't intended to sound flippant, our armed services aren't there to provide emergency assistance to whichever country in the world requires it at any given time. And just a year after the Tsunami where British and other rich people gave unprecedented sums for aid, I think it's a bit rich to whinge about the lack of support for Pakistan.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    You can't intimidate people into giving money.

    People are becoming more sophisticated in giving to charity these days, and they want to know exactly how and where their money will be spent, and I think that's reasonable.

    At the end of the day, and this isn't intended to sound flippant, our armed services aren't there to provide emergency assistance to whichever country in the world requires it at any given time. And just a year after the Tsunami where British and other rich people gave unprecedented sums for aid, I think it's a bit rich to whinge about the lack of support for Pakistan.

    WHINGE, ahhhhhh
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just out of interest the DEC reports that over £30m has been raised in the UK for the general population... just related to the Earthquake. They were sirprised given that it follwed closely on from both Katrina and the Waves...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    You can't intimidate people into giving money.


    Exactly.

    Do you know if the people you speak of give money to their own charities they support O.B ? or are you assuming they have money but wont part with it ?
    I personally only give to certain charities, these charities are special to me so thats why i only give to them.

    and I shall be honest, I mainly give to charities in this country.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At times on this board it seems the rich and Christians are made about to be the most unpleasant people in the world – forget criminals and terrorists.
    When it comes to discussing economics or aiding the needy and poor, of course, the rich are deeply unpleasant. For every rich person who significantly contributes to charity 99 others don't. And before you mention any figures remember that what counts here is percentage of wealth. As it happens most working class people appear to give far more to charity proportionally than the rich do.

    The massive gap between them and the rest, and their refusal to part with any of their money (or the reasons why they are rich in the first place) are much to blame for the poverty that exists in the world. And the extraordinary (and morally repugnant) lengths they will go to attempt to cheat out of paying taxes- even though they would hardly feel the impact of paying any due taxes, unlike working class people I should add- is another contributing factor.

    So yes, the rich do get a bad press when it comes to poverty. And deservedly so.

    Don't know exactly why Christians have been mentioned in this particular debate though. The only thing I would say is that anyone who calls himself a Christian yet objects to giving aid to other nations and tries to avoid paying taxes is not a Christian at all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    As it happens most working class people appear to give far more to charity proportionally than the rich do.
    One hears this a lot. Is it true?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    One hears this a lot. Is it true?
    appear to.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It would appear to be. One only needs to know a few people from several walks of life and make a few mental calculations.

    Many working class/middle class people I know, on wages of say 15k to 35k, made donations of £15 or £20 to the tsunami effort. I know of one far wealthier person (as in six-figure salary and a inheritance of seven figures) who donated £50. You do the maths.

    One case doesn't make for a whole nation of course but that would indeed appear to be the story across the nation.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    With the greatest of respect, I'd rather believe a more reliable source.

    ETA: I found this
    Samaritans wrote:
    The poor are also more generous than the rich when it comes to giving to charity. 35% of households with an income of under £25,000 have said they'll give more to charity this year as a result of the Tsunami, compared with just 6% of households earning more
    Those two sentences are a bit incongruous.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    yes ...if your not an atheist your deemed to be some primitive life form who knows nothing of the modern world ...if your wealthy your obviously a manipulative scum bag who cares for no one ...

    todays beautiful people are leftwing athiests it would seem.

    True, I was generalising. There are a few good Rich people. But often, the rich woh give give a small, small percent - they can EASILY afford more.

    If they were good Christians, they would give. But it seems tobe OK, if you feel bad about not giving and confess your sins before death. :rolleyes: Religion is good, but so often used badly and flasely.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    With the greatest of respect, I'd rather believe a more reliable source.

    ETA: I found this


    Those two sentences are a bit incongruous.

    I've heard that the biggest charitable givers are the poorest and the richest people, with those in the middle being the most stingy.

    To be honest though, I'd think less of Bill Gates giving away 99% of his wealth, but still keeping enough to live the rest of his life in luxury, than someone who gave a lesser percentage of their money, but actually made some genuine sacrifices to do so. That's nothing against Bill Gates, by the way, it's his money, he earned it, he can do what he wants with it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    we find it so easy to spend billions upon billions on death ...so difficult to spend it on life.
    why?
    surely man longs for peace and security ...so is there something wrong with the actual people who make the decisions?

    Pakistan spends something like 40% plus of its GDP on developing its nuclear and military might ... I don't think the West can be completely blamed on this occassion ...

    (which is no comfort to the poor souls trapped up in the mountains etc)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OB, I have to say I wouldn't give money to a random bloke with a bucket either. Too many people rob too much from charity for me to trust them. And, given your insane postings on here, I wouldn't trust you as far as I could throw you.

    The Pakistani wealthy don't seem in too much rush to donate either.

    The rich donate more, but proportionately less. That's just a fact of life, really. There are many reasons for it, to say its because they are greedy is lazy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What other reasons could there be?

    With a few honourable exceptions, the richer the person the greedier they become.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    What other reasons could there be?

    You assume that the rich have larger cash resources, for starters. The richer the person the bigger the mortgage, don't forget. Unless you want them to sell their house for some starving Ethiopians, you're being very unfair.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rich people seldom have mortages- I'm talking properly rich here.

    No working class person has to sell their homes for making a donation. But you can bet your arse that most of those people will still feel the effect of making a £20 donation at the end of the month.

    Rich people could donate considerably larger sums without even noticing it's gone from the bank account. In practice few do.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The properly rich do actually give a significant wedge- Bill Gates certainly does, and so do creatures like Brian Souter. Such a shame that Souter gives to homophobic organisations, but hey.

    Where do you draw the line as rich? Income? Lots of people on high incomes don't have any more spare cash than those on lower ones, they just have nicer things.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm willing to bet that 99% of people on 300K+ a year (not to mention their bonuses) don't have a mortage to speak of- and even if they did they certainly would not be struggling to pay it off.

    This notion you appear to have of rich people somehow struggling to make ends meet or being cash-strapped is extraordinarily bizarre, I must say.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The wealthy give money in other ways - I send a direct debit every month to RNLI, I buy poppies, I put money in tins etc. If I was wealthy I'd spend way over the odds at charity dinners to listen to some old bore pontificating about their time as Minister for Pensions under Callaghan or bid outrageous sums for a pair of boxers signed by the reserve squad of Lincoln Town. And if I was mega rich I'd donate tens of millions direct to charitable foundations or to University to research malaria.

    Also money is only one way of giving. if you go into any Help the Aged or Oxfam shop you'd quickly realise they would cease to exist if middle-class women didn't give large chunks of their free time to helping out in them.

    its not that the rich don't give to charity its that they give in a different way.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I'm willing to bet that 99% of people on 300K+ a year (not to mention their bonuses) don't have a mortage to speak of- and even if they did they certainly would not be struggling to pay it off.

    This notion you appear to have of rich people somehow struggling to make ends meet or being cash-strapped is extraordinarily bizarre, I must say.
    How many people is this? :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just because a person doesn't donate money there a then it doesn't mean they don't donate money at all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote:
    Pakistan spends something like 40% plus of its GDP on developing its nuclear and military might ... I don't think the West can be completely blamed on this occassion ...

    (which is no comfort to the poor souls trapped up in the mountains etc)
    ...i wasn't laying the blame on the west ...i was questioning the decision makers ...all of them.

    i'm going with aladdin on this one cos human nature doesn't seem to have changed much if at all since the biblical writting regarding the widows mite.

    the rich people openly donated loads of cash and goods and finery to the temple ...whilst mocking the old widow ...who only ever put in a small coin but ...the small coin was ALL she had.
    they gave net to nothing compared with her ...
    same as it ever was then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the original question was ...

    Can we ever give tooo much aid

    maybe should be changed to ...

    will we ever give enogh?
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    the rich people openly donated loads of cash and goods and finery to the temple ...whilst mocking the old widow ...who only ever put in a small coin but ...the small coin was ALL she had.
    they gave net to nothing compared with her ...
    same as it ever was then?

    Pretty much.
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