Buying islamic Votes Question

Former Member · December 2004

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/12/09/do0901.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/12/09/ixopinion.html

Allright, I have just read this and it is pretty whackey stuff to me but I'm puting it up because I value the views here at thesite as representative and worth consideration for US over here.

If you have time, let me know what you think of the content.

:cool:

Former Member · December 2004

I think you'll find that the broad concensus here is that religion is a matter of choice, unlike skin colour (see the Muslim maternity thread), and that kind of protection would be impractical. That Jews and Sikhs are held to be 'mono-ethnic' is interesting, and possibly the reason while Jews are regarded as some kind of new master race, but not relevant to religions like Islam and Christianity.

Former Member · December 2004

Thanks for the link. The Telegraph used to be a newspaper which reflected traditional British Conservative values, (which were approximately similar to Republican Party or Paleoconservative views over in the US). Over the last 10 years it's raced ahead of the Conservative party in embracing Neoconservatism. That the Neocon programme is not at all Conservative is why Blair & Co. are so at ease with the Neocon programme, it's internationalist rather than 'Little English', it seems to offer to ex-marxists, here and in the US, the 'one size fits all' answer that some mindsets need, and perhaps more importantly, it sees Israel as something worth preserving, even fighting for, whether or not it's truly an ally (U.S.S. Liberty, Jonathan Pollard, Lawrence A. Franklin recently and so and so on). Just as Communists intervened in foreign states to share their 'great idea', so do Neocons. Ironically the British Conservatives who are caricatured as bigoted or Imperial, would always choose to let 'Johnny Foreigner' do whatever suited him, as long as it didn't affect British interests, and they were initially left in the stalls by the New Labour meddlers. I'm sure today's Tory leaders have got the message and would toe the Imperialist Neocon line as carefully as does Blair. My understanding is that the ex - communists / socialists / marxists, who now control the Government of the US only jumped to the right when the left began to be concerned, 40 years too late, with the Palestinian issue (todays neocons ditched Marxism to ally themselves with Reagan, simply because liberals were beginning to be concerned about the Jewish Apartheid state, yet claim their Politics have nothing to do with being Jewish! Mmmmm). This article by Prof. Kevin Macdonald explains the Jewish roots of the neocon movement.http://www.vdare.com/misc/macdonald_neoconservatism.htm
That's my view of the background to why it suddenly seems acceptable to criticise a certain minority group in Britain, something that Politicians and press haven't dared do for the last several decades, since Enoch Powell in fact.
So why Muslims? I think it's because Muslims have a culture and ideology which is proving a tough nut to crack for those who seek to impose a 'one size fits all' system on the whole world. In their homes most British Muslims see at least some of the programmes on Arabic or Pakistani channels which as a matter of routine assume a link between Israel, a Jewish influenced US and West, and subsequent Muslim suffering across the globe. These people don't hate the west, but we do give them some justification for thinking that the west hates them.
If a politician launched a crackdown on Black crime because of the 'dangers' that Blacks pose (statistically higher for rape, muggings and all murders say, than Muslims), the press would hound him out of office, but our politicians and press have warned us constantly of the Muslim danger for nearly 4 years, and legislated against it, and I can't believe they're not unaware that Black crime levels are so high that a lot of mini-osama's would have a tough time matching the figures. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/s95race00.pdf
Are the Government and press partners in a conspiracy? Well, they do share the same opinion of minorities; Muslims-Bad, Blacks-Don't criticise 'em, Jews-Don't mention 'em. And both Government and press have similar levels of minority personnel; Muslims-Almost none (if any), Blacks-Almost none (if any), Jews-Massively over-represented and influential. But, who knows...? I don't know what the answer is, but I sometimes envy those like the Japanese who live in an ethnically homogenous country, who are spared having to juggle minorities with a whole raft of interests and concerns totally separate from, in this case, British ones.
When I saw the title of the thread, I remembered the 1997 General Election where throughout Britain there was a massive swing towards Labour, but not in West Bradford normally held by Labour with a large majority. The Labour Party fielded a Sikh candidate, so local Muslim Labour party members promoted other parties, and there was a swing against Labour. The Sikh Labour candidate did sneak in tho', but of course 'White' people in the area complain that he's been favouring Muslims ever since. See why I envy the Japanese?

Former Member · December 2004

Thanks for the refreshing answer. I agree...there is much about the Japanese to emulate with honor. And I especially like their food/cooking/lack of cooking, etc.

It appears that folks in the old pirate kingdom suffer from some of the same intrusions that we, US, are forced to endure. Politicians allow all manner of undesireable emigration in order to keep folks at each other instead of paying attention to what their elected 'rulers' are doing.

:cool:

Former Member · December 2004

I like the Japanese too. I lived in Oxford for some years and perhaps the Japanese who came to Oxford as tourists and students were not representative, but I suspect their behaviour was. They were almost always polite, considerate of others, and respectful of cultural differences, (despite all the minefields that challenge provides) yet they were confident in expressing their own cultural identity (unlike ALL White nations I've known, except the French, of course). Some expressed sympathy for the problems Britain has to deal with due to mass-immigration, others couldn't get beyond bafflement as to why we ever invited "half the world" into our country in the first place. I couldn't answer. The more I think about this the more I envy the Japanese. Having moved back to Bradford, which is even more divided than after the last riot, (google bradford race riots) which was itself prompted by the fact that no arrests were made after the first riot (riot being the word used only when it makes the news, dozens of armed Kurds fighting dozens of armed Pakistanis, doesn't even make the local news in Bradford!) I wonder is there anybody from, say Exeter, Plymouth or Norwich who would like to be on the receiving end of multi-culturalism as Brixton, Bradford and Toxteth have experienced it over the last 50 yrs? Keep Japan Japanese is what I say!

Former Member · December 2004

Originally posted by nckdn
Having moved back to Bradford, which is even more divided than after the last riot, (google bradford race riots) which was prompted by the fact that no arrests were made after the first riot (riot being the word used only when it makes the news, dozens of armed Kurds fighting dozens of armed Pakistanis, doesn't even make the local news in Bradford!I wonder is there anybody from, say Exeter, Plymouth or Norwich who would like to be on the receiving end of multi-culturalism as Brixton, Bradford and Toxteth have experienced it over the last 50 yrs?

The Telegraph and Argus is too scared of upsetting the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in Bradford to ever say anything. Everyone who lives in Bradford knows this, I personally wouldn't wipe dog shit off my shoes with the T&A.

A year or two ago, a Pakistani "have a go hero" was shot by two white men committing a burglary, and that made the first ten pages of news. On the same day a fifteen-year-old girl was abducted and gang-raped by a large gang of Pakistani men, and there was no mention of it in the good old T&A.

Just saying, like.

As long as the riots are justified by the morons on the left things will only get worse in Bradford, and in Oldham, Burnley and Blackburn. The riots in Bradford (both times) were never about race, they were about the small criminal element in Bradford's ethnic communities making their "patch" a police no-go area, and it's worked. As proved by the large gangs of Pakistani and Bangladeshi youths throwing fireworks at Toller Lane police station every year (arrests and convictions to date: 0).

All ethnic communities get along just fine in places like Leicester and in Newcastle, so it proves that to blame race for the riots is misguided. Though I do believe that the ethnic communities responsible for the rioting got away with it, and indeed have been encouraged to continue such behaviour by the appallingly light sentences (reduced because of the "matrix of racial fear"- that'd be ten BNP loonies at the Interchange receiving a good kicking by West Yorkshire Police to you and me) and the refusal to blame those communities for their own problems with violence.

Bradford is a mess, and it always will be, because people refuse to blame the people responsible for the mess and instead wank on about "social deprivation" (which is true) and "racial intolerance" (which isn't, though is rapidly becoming a self-fulfilling propehcy). Then they rename schools into Urdu names, pour money into the ethnic areas without putting any into the poor white estates, and wonder why six BNP councillors got elected to the city council.

Former Member · December 2004

http://www.cjnews.com/viewarticle.asp?id=5056

Some interesting answers and views in this article...going to the heart of the subject.

:cool:

Former Member · December 2004

I agree with much of what you say Kermit, I think the T & A are doing their best to keep the lid on a box of lit fireworks. But don't you think that the press nationally, and even politicians, are more critical of Muslims and Islam (rather than specific local criminals who happen to be Pakistani say) today than they were just 4 years ago, and that the tone and volume of the criticism is way out of proportion? I went to a school where more than 90% of the students were of Pakistani or Bangladeshi background and I know those people now. They are no more likely to commit an act of terrorism than my gran is (or not much). When Polly Toynbee in the Guardian thinks it's OK to have a pop at a minority group (repeatedly) there's been a massive cultural shift. It can only provoke an 'equal and opposite' cultural shift in the mindset of the next generation of British Muslims.
I know people won't like me saying this, but if the British Muslims were Jewish and behaved exactly the same, I don't think there'd be any criticism. If I'm wrong about a pro-Jewish, anti-Muslim bias in the press people will be able to explain why they've never heard about the Zionist's attempt to blow up our parliament. The security services and politicians must know about it, there are Muslims in Bradford who do, 'cos they told me about it. The leader of the plot, Avner, even wrote a book bragging about this and other crimes committed while a member of the Stern Gang, 'Memoirs of an Assassin'. Nice. If it had been Palestinians who tried and failed to blow up our Parliament, the Hunt protester's 'invasion' earlier this year would have been used as an opportunity to remind us all of the danger Muslims present (in fact it was!). But nobody mentioned Avner.
Muslims get a raw deal as far as I can see, and the response of 99.99999% of Muslims is almost absurdly passive. Not aggressive.

Former Member · December 2004

Originally posted by nckdn
I wonder is there anybody from, say Exeter, Plymouth or Norwich who would like to be on the receiving end of multi-culturalism as Brixton, Bradford and Toxteth have experienced it over the last 50 yrs? Keep Japan Japanese is what I say!

What's the receiving end of multiculturalism in Brixton? I live in Brixton and I'd like to know what you mean.

Former Member · December 2004

Originally posted by Blagsta
What's the receiving end of multiculturalism in Brixton? I live in Brixton and I'd like to know what you mean.

I was clearly referring to the inexcusable large scale rioting by minority ethnic thugs in those places, whether these riots were provoked by bad policing of minority ethnic groups, BNP thugs stirring up trouble or some other reason. Do you suppose most people in Plymouth say, look at Brixton or Bradford and regret that huge numbers of people from the Caribbean or Sub-continent didn't settle in Plymouth, perhaps to riot in Plymouth? That by living in a supposedly monocultural city they are missing out on the great benefits of multiculturalism? I'll bet that if you took a vote tomorrow, most would say they are pleased to have avoided mass immigration into their city. That's what I was suggesting, maybe I'm wrong. Personally (most of the time anyway) I like to live somewhere with a mix of cultures and nationalities.
If you want to defend multiculturalism Blagsta, get onto the CRE, but I think it's already a dead duck. The CRE (!) giving up on multiculturalism is their contribution to the anti-islamic diarrhoea spewing out from the mainstream press and Government.

Former Member · December 2004

If you are referring to the Brixton riots of the 80's, it was not just black people rioting. It was presented in the media as a race riot (and the racism of the police and their use of the sus laws was definitely a huge factor) but to ignore economic and class issues shows a very simplistic understanding of what went on.

Now, as I mentioned in another thread, if you want to discuss multiculturalism and immigration from a class perspective I'll happily join you. As it is however, you are not doing your protestations of not being racist any good. ALL of your arguments start from a racist position.

Former Member · December 2004

Originally posted by nckdn
I wonder is there anybody from, say Exeter, Plymouth or Norwich who would like to be on the receiving end of multi-culturalism as Brixton, Bradford and Toxteth have experienced it over the last 50 yrs? Keep Japan Japanese is what I say!

While Exeter doesn't boast the same multiculturalism as say Brixton, or, closer to home Bristol, it does have, albeit limited, multi-culturalism. it just helps to look outside of traditional "multiculturalism", by this I mean that while our ethnic mix is limited, our travelling and homeless populations are some of the highest. (I don't have the data to hand, but the homeless rate in Exeter is in % terms, higher than Manchester - (as is the suicide rate, but that is a different story))
within Exeter and the surrounds there is a high intake of refugees and asylum seekers too.
The university also host a centre for islamic studies http://www.ex.ac.uk/iais/

Buying islamic Votes Question

Comments