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How far is too far?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Just a question here, with the seemingly misguided conflicts over the past 4 or so years (Afgahanistan and Iraq mainly) and the prospect of more conflict with N. Korea, Iran etc, how far will other country's turn a blind eye to the crusaders of America and the UK. Because I think that's what we are, we've gone in and destroyed other countries and made them switch to our ideology - democracy. It sounds nice but who can definitively say democracy is 'right' and totalitarianism is 'wrong'?
I'm not saying Saddam was a nice guy, or that the Taliban looked after the people there, but if another country has it's own way of dealing with things, when do we as nosy neighbours have to take our noses out. Because at the end of the day, there's the chance we're wrong and they're right, but I bet nobody in the whitehouse, or in the UK cabinet, has thought about the other side, that maybe it's our government that's messed up.
Anyway, my point is, how many countries will America & UK be allowed to invade before 'action' is taken. And what action would this be? Sanctions? Harsh words? Invasion? (joke)
I'm not saying Saddam was a nice guy, or that the Taliban looked after the people there, but if another country has it's own way of dealing with things, when do we as nosy neighbours have to take our noses out. Because at the end of the day, there's the chance we're wrong and they're right, but I bet nobody in the whitehouse, or in the UK cabinet, has thought about the other side, that maybe it's our government that's messed up.
Anyway, my point is, how many countries will America & UK be allowed to invade before 'action' is taken. And what action would this be? Sanctions? Harsh words? Invasion? (joke)
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So I don't know what the answer is except to make sure we are going against Al Qaeda. Afghanistan made more sense to me than Iraq. I'm trying to hope some good will come out of Iraq if a Muslim-run democracy can be built. But at what a horrible expense on both sides. So I'm against war. I do have a question.
My question is: did the world have a moral obligation to stop the torture of people in Iraq? Why did the world allow it to go on? Did the world think....oh those people are brutal? Was there some massive prejudice against Persians, Arabs, Muslims? Why didn't we save people from Saddam?
Put some countries still do torture people, and we don't really care about them. I can't remember exactly, and it's dangerous to make guesses - but China has a particularly vile human rights record. I'm sure I remember soldiers shooting at students on a peaceful demonstration. Look at the abuse the tibetan lamas have received. If we look at Thailand they seem to be pretty harsh too if you beleive what you read - when I went there it was lovely though.
Onto harboring terrorists: what about the south American countries that have millionaire drug barons who play an active part in the countries' politics because they are so powerful, and they get all their money by selling cocaine in America. Russia is still I beleive at the forefront of weapons smuggling, with numerous Russian Mafia groups supplying illegal or unregistered weapons to countries like Germany, France, the UK and of course, the US (although I beleive you can now legally own an assualt rifle there
It just seems trivial to me - nowhere is perfect, so why do we have one standard for one and another for the rest. Afghanistan and Iraq are both countries that couldn't put up any real resistance because of crippling wars - but do you see America going to invade China, because they sure as hell have got Weapons of Mass Destruction, they have a long history of human rights abuses, and they don't have the 'values' of democracy that we seem to love so much.
iraq is a country invented by the british.
we forced people of differing beliefs to live in one country and the only way it could have a chance of working was to have a strong man ...a bastard ...in charge. but that bastatrd had to have our interests at heart above all else.
the same is even more true today.
kuwait? it is part of iraq. but ...the good old english carved it off and gave it to a family who would run it in our interests.
if ...we wanted to spread democracy in the middle east ...why didn't we start with our freinds ...suadi and kuwait ...oh what an example that could have been but no ...lets go destroy a civilisation ...lets reduce it to rubble and tears and hatred ...to set an example of the joys of democracy or more correctly ...westernisation.