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National DNA database.

Seeing the coverage of the serial rapist in the South East has got me thinking.

They had his DNA after the first crime and if there was a national database chances are maybe he would have been caught sooner.

So for crimes like this, I find it hard to justify my reluctance to the database.

But, well, it would make fitting someone up for a crime much easier, and well I dont really think the laws of this country are just.

It all boils down to the nub, "if you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide"

Your thoughts please.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A good and difficult issue this is.

    I despise the 'if you are innocent you have nothing to be worried about' argument because it is so open to abuse.

    I'm torn about this thing. For me it would all depend on what percentage of crimes and prevention of future offences could realistically be prevented by having a national DNA database. If the number proved to be very small then sorry but I could never support it.

    If it proved to solve a significant number of crimes than I might reluctantly agree to it. But on the condition that the police don't have readily access to the files. The database should be protected from all access and only a judge issuing warrants on a case-to-case basis should allow the police or the government to access files.

    Otherwise we all know what's going to happen.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I just dont think I have enough trust in either the police or the CPS.

    I do think though that it could well be very useful when it comes to cases like this where it is obvious that the man is a serial attacker. But then they are VERY rare.

    Obviously the data base would be pointless unless the police had constant access to at least the data produced if not the samples.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    A late friend of mine got convicted of criminal damage after he broke a window and cut himself leaving blood on the window. They charged him after they matched DNA to a sample taken when he'd previously been arrested and charged on another matter - but he was never convicted.

    So they had kept his DNA on record even though he'd had no convictions. Is that right?
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure, I dont think they can hold it without your permision if you havent been convicted.

    But, he might have just signed the form when he was being charged without really reading it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Any of you ever been arrested? The always take a DNA sample, I have no idea how long they keep it for. So they kind of have a database already although I am sure its mostly used to catch petty criminals.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    Originally posted by godscop
    Any of you ever been arrested? The always take a DNA sample

    They've taken m finger prints using the computer and swabbed my gob every time I've goitton arrested even when I havn't been charged.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To put it short an' sweet. I don't trust the authorities and I'm sure I speak for others. I think the higher 'security' gets, the more imprisoned people will feel. Feeling imprisoned will, in my opinion lead to problems like apathy and anomie... if that makes sense.

    Sorry... drunk Moony will elaborate when she's sober.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A DNA databse maybe wouldn't see crime fall, because lets face it. The people who burgle houses are idiots.
    But it would mean they get caught.
    Someone only has to leave a hair at the scene and they will be caught. If they decide to use the toilet, if they have a drink out the tap, if they do anything BUT wear a biohazard suit they will be caught.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    there is already an DNA database being compiled here in the UK, although i dont know whether it links a dna sample to a name, in court using dna to determine if an individual was at a scene of a crime is a matter of match probability, ie if it is like 1 match in 10 million samples taken from the public then its likely that individual was there, i think the dna database is used to calculating match probability
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They don't always use DNA however, as there is something like a 1 in 500 million chance that yours matches someone elses. Fingerprints however are unique, the only other person you may share fingerprints with is an identical twin.

    I agree whole heartedly with the idea, if not for catching criminals, but eliminating innocent people from enquiries. How many people throughout the world have been wrongly linked with a crime?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with the use of genetics, it's very accurate and if it can help catch the right person then I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    because, it's a violation of our civil liberties :lol:

    I would have thought being wrongly accused would be more of a violation but hey, if anything helps the police do their job lets not do it, because it must be wrong.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere; Its not quite as simple as that though is it. If more and more focus is put upon DNA evidence would it not become easier and easier for the police to set someone up? Or for someone to be framed?

    But as I said in my original post, when it comes to cases such as serial rapes, how can you say its not a good idea?

    Perhaps if the laws in this country were just I might be more in favour.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    DNA evidence can become contaminated... so the 1 in 500 million ratio is changed a little...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    Whowhere; Its not quite as simple as that though is it. If more and more focus is put upon DNA evidence would it not become easier and easier for the police to set someone up? Or for someone to be framed?


    Well no, because you need to actually have got the evidence from somewhere. And contrary to what people see on the Bill, the police don't set people up, no matter what you might think.

    Imagine a court setting:
    Police-M'ud, we found this particle of skin at the murder scene belonging to Mr Bloggs.
    Judge-How could you, Mr Bloggs had been in France for 3 weeks before and 1 week after the murder....

    or something similar.
    Without actual physical evidence of someone being there they can'#t use DNA.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But the DNA evidence can be used as evidence that he/she was there if they can not account for their where abouts.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    But the DNA evidence can be used as evidence that he/she was there if they can not account for their where abouts.

    But the police need to actually gather physical evidence and I thought DNA linking someone to the scene is the entire point?.

    They're busy enough arresting people who actually do commit crimes than to go looking for people who aren't guilty but they have a personal dislike for.
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