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Goodbye European constitution

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3319959.stm

What a shame! It's not only the UK that is concerned with giving up power to Europe, why should all the other independant EU nations be interested in doing this?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I cant say I blame Germany wanting more votes, Poland gets 27 votes for their 40m people and Germany gets 29 votes for 80m!

    It is a shame really, I do think that the UK needs to combine into a more credible power. It would be good for the world to have two super powers, but whether you can ever get 25 countries (or more) to aggree is questionable.

    And of course if we're not careful those sneeky Europeans will take the Queens head off our notes, thats what they've all been planning.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by bongbudda
    And of course if we're not careful those sneeky Europeans will take the Queens head off our notes, thats what they've all been planning.
    Yes and sadly for many europhobes that's what the whole issue of the EU boils down to. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Yes and sadly for many europhobes that's what the whole issue of the EU boils down to. :rolleyes:

    Not really, I think the single currency is a seperate issue, as far as I'm concerned anway.
    More concerned about vetos, votes, EU Influence over tax, defence & the EU Army.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by dantheman
    More concerned about...the EU Army.

    Why?

    All the leading political academic commentators think that a single European army would be the best thing to happen to Britain. The EU army cannot happen without us, and we would lead it from the front because a) France and Germany dont trust each other to re-arm and b) our army is the second-best in the world.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    Why?

    All the leading political academic commentators think that a single European army would be the best thing to happen to Britain. The EU army cannot happen without us, and we would lead it from the front because a) France and Germany dont trust each other to re-arm and b) our army is the second-best in the world.

    I don't think Europe should be looking to go their own way with everything as it will just distance relations with the rest of the world and America. Plus our army will just be doing things that France and Germany want.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by dantheman
    I don't think Europe should be looking to go their own way with everything as it will just distance relations with the rest of the world and America. Plus our army will just be doing things that France and Germany want.

    I don't think we would go our own way. With regards to the US and NATO I would have thought they would be happy to have a united and stronger European contribution........

    I think it would work best of every nation had their own individual armies but there was a European structure for any combined defence effort i.e. most things.

    I doubt there would be any chance of the French and Germnas 'telling us what to do' it is a bout cooperation and joint decision making not the domination of one by another.

    We would probably have more autonomy than we do with the US at the mo..............
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg
    I don't think we would go our own way. With regards to the US and NATO I would have thought they would be happy to have a united and stronger European contribution........

    I think it would work best of every nation had their own individual armies but there was a European structure for any combined defence effort i.e. most things.

    I doubt there would be any chance of the French and Germnas 'telling us what to do' it is a bout cooperation and joint decision making not the domination of one by another.

    We would probably have more autonomy than we do with the US at the mo..............
    I thought that the US were suppose to be very concerned about the prospect of a Euro Army.
    They would love Europe to follow them, as the UK have done,
    but a Euro Army would not have to listen to them and they wouldn't like that one bit. I am all for not letting the USA throw their weight around the world with their milartary might but I am worried than Europe will turn into the new USSR and eventually will become enemies with the US, nobody wants a situation like that & we don't want the US going to isolation mode.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't really see EU and US being enemies in any Cold War sense and like you say surely it is better to have more of a counterweight to US power?

    Furthermore surely the best way to bridge the gap between Europe and the US is to have Britain involved as much as possible?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thank God for that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg


    I doubt there would be any chance of the French and Germnas 'telling us what to do' it is a bout cooperation and joint decision making not the domination of one by another.

    not telling people what to do! co-operation? very fine ideals i'm sure but the whole of political history is about domination and trickery.
    the germans are now threatening the poles with economic reprisals to try and force them to do what the germans want them to do.
    25 countries with so many different interests and outlooks will never work.
    germany and france,WILL ...i'm sure bully and cojole where they can ...so will the rest. it will be whittled down to far less countries ...watch this space.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    looks like its the begining of the end
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For the constitution you mean?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    For the constitution you mean?
    no he has just realised what micky howard's chances are of winning an election!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    25 countries with so many different interests

    But in the areas where the EU operates the interests of the countries are generally the same............
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Goodbye European constitution


    Good Riddence to Bad Rubbish!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Like most Heads of State in Europe, I find it embarassing that we had to go crawling for help to the USA to sort out the Balkan troubles. Blair in particular was disturbed by that, and felt that the Europeans had to be able to sort out their own troubles.

    Blair, according to most academic observers, would like to have the EU Army tomorrow, because Britain would be in charge. Britain has the armoury, Britain would lead from the front. But unfortunately people buy into the crap spouted by Murdoch- against the EU because of the competition rules- and the Tories, who are feeding on paranoia.

    Britain, if it wanted to do it, would be at the forefront of Europe on most issues; it could, and would, play the French and Germans off against each other. The Franco-German alliance is not watertight, and there is a lot of mistrust, particularly on militaristic issues.

    The US is against the prospect of a united EU because the USA would lose its place as the sole global hegemonic power. If The EU could question, the US would have to compromise, whereas at the minute it does not have to.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hit the nail right on the head Kermit.

    If we can put the Constitution and single currency aside for a moment, the US is certainly very concerned of the potential the EU has. We can be an economic powerhouse second to none, and that includes the US. The euro, far from collapsing as some had predicted is becoming the currency of choice for so many countries out there. And since we do not have imperialistic ambitions (well Blair does sadly but not the rest) a fully backed EU army would be perfectly capable not only of defending its members against any present or future threat but of sending task forces and intervening in conflicts elsewhere if so required.

    Of course, without Britain fully up for it none of this will happen to its full potential. And there is no doubt that the US is and will continue to try to keep Britain from fully integrating in the EU, its army and its currency.
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