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Let's talk about love (what a bad idea)

NekolovesteaNekolovestea Posts: 57 Boards Initiate
Hello guys and girls and everybody basically

I'm very tired, stressed out by the ton of work I have to do, and something happened that does not make me the happiest man on earth. For those who might remember my older posts, you know the story I have told it countless of times. For those who don't, I am madly in love with a girl that used to be my girlfriend about 2 and a half years ago now, haven't moved on, more in love than at the beginning actually. The thing is I just learnt she had been with someone else for the past week, somebody my friend told me was quite an asshole and a stupid and reckless guy, but look, I could criticize him, but I'm not here to do that, there would be no point in doing this. I actually randmoly bumped into them in the subway and then my friend's friend told me that they are now together. After learning about it all, my friend and I have had a discussion about how I'm very (very) stubborn when it comes to love, and this girl in general. I'll try to explain both of our point of views, I'll do the best I can to be as objective as possible.

- Love, to me, has a proper goal, and everything which surrounds love and relationships are only either details or part of the construction of this goal. Which means I never engage in a relationship with someone I know I will never live with, because the love is pointless to me, which makes it unenjoyable. I can't be happy with someone who either does not agree with my life goals and ideas, or with somebody who can't convince me that her life goals and ideas are better than mine. In fact, my "process" if you call it that, for love, always goes through friendship. I don't have much friends (you would have guessed), and I am only friends with the people I really see a form of maturity in, it has been the case for 3 people in my life now, one is my best friend, another my ex, and the last one a regular friend, probably the most mature of all, but I need time to get to know her (yep all of them are girls, that's just how it is in general at my age). These friends are friends, but I see in them something I don't see in others, and over time maybe we will agree on life goals and ideas, maybe will we even develop feelings, maybe we will not. If we do, or if i do, and if I have the courage, I will ask to try a deeper relationship. So yes, I am very picky about this. I am very stubborn about leaving the life I want, I am quite attached to philosophy in general so I believe it's an important aspect of life, and I would rather live the life I want alone, than bend to somebody's ideas I don't agree with just to not be alone in the end. This is how I see love. Personally consering my ex girlfriend, I have kind of come to the conclusion (probably not a very good one) that I would love her forever, and that I should just get used to it. I now believe that you can love an old love without it stopping you from entering a new relationship, maybe I am wrong, I don't know.

- Love, to her, is another thing, and I believe her point of view is very interesting as well. What she has told me is that in the 2 serious relationships she has been in, love has also been a way to get out of a previous relationship. She told me that loving someone can make you forget. She has told me as well that, in the last relationship she has had, she knew she would not live with this person forever, but she still accepted the relationship and decided to enjoy it, and she did. Actually she has even asked me, in desperation I guess, to be in a relationship with me (non sexual, which would actually not change much from our current friendship), to make me move on, because she is tired and hurt of seeing me so focused on the same person for the last 2 and a half years. Yes, I refused, I don't see the point, I would still love her anyway, just a label can't make me forget about such a love. Her point is, I will never know if I never try. My point is, I almost know what I want, but I certainly know what I don't want, and such a relationship would only be a source of pain and a feeling of dishonour and treason (to myself and my ex girlfriend (yes this part is still a bit delusional but it's not important)).

Now my question is, what is your opinion of love, what would you do in my situation, and which side do you agree the most with ?

Thank you for your time, I love you all,
See you all <3
“You must see with eyes unclouded by hate. See the good in that which is evil, and the evil in that which is good. Pledge yourself to neither side, but vow instead to preserve the balance that exists between the two.” 
-Hayao Miyazaki
MikeJade09

Comments

  • Han93Han93 EnglandPosts: 309 The Mix Regular
    Hey @Nekolovestea

    This is such an interesting discussion and one where I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Love means different things for different people and I think that's the first important thing for us to understand.

    It sounds like you're an all or nothing person meanwhile your friend is the kind of person that believes that love can grow if you give it a go and if it doesn't work out that's ok too. I think both ways of looking at love are really interesting and totally correct.

    I can only really answer it from my experience but I have fallen in love twice. The first time I fell in love pretty quickly and our relationship was mainly about sex and I never really thought about the future with him. The second time I fell in love with my current boyfriend was a much slower process - he was my friend for four years before it became anything more - and when I first met him and even for the next four years I never thought I was ever going to fall for him but since then I've always thought about it as a long-term thing. So I guess I've had experience in both and I think that's probably quite normal.

    I think what's worked for me with both cases is that I never really looked for love, it just kind of came to me so I think that's my top tip. It will come to you again and it will be brilliant <3
    Mike
  • Evelyn360Evelyn360 Posts: 82 Budding Regular
    Hi @Nekolovestea,

    This is a really interesting thread and I actually think you're quite brave for posting about it when you seem to have quite a clear (and stubborn as you put it) view of how you perceive love and the kind of love you're looking for, but still willing to post it as a topic of debate. 

    Similar to @Han93, I personally feel love is completely subjective and there is no right or wrong answer. The way we think and feel, the experiences we've had in life and the way we piece together emotions and actions vary so much between each individual. What one might see to be an act of love, might not mean that at all to someone else. 

    I also think there are different ways in which to love someone, from how you have a clear vision, to your friend loving someone who made them forget a previous relationship to how Han said he was friends with someone for years before anything developed. 

    I wouldn't say what I would do in your situation but I'll leave you with some things to think about.

    You say you are more in love with you ex now then you were at the beginning (I assume you mean when you first fell in love?) Was your vision of love then, the same as it is now, and how do you think your relationship together altered that vision? 

    You don't have to share your thoughts on this. I hope you're feeling less tired and stressed out  :)
    Mike
  • MikeMike 🎮 LondonPosts: 3,832 Community Manager
    Some really cool insights from you all in this conversation. :3 And as @Evelyn360 and @Han93 said, there's no right or wrong answer but for sure it's good to hear different perspectives.

    @Nekolovestea said:
    I am very stubborn about leaving the life I want, I am quite attached to philosophy in general so I believe it's an important aspect of life, and I would rather live the life I want alone, than bend to somebody's ideas I don't agree with just to not be alone in the end.

    I can really relate to this. I tend to find myself, in my personal life, putting my needs first a lot of the time. I like to make sure my own boxes are checked before other peoples', and there are elements to the way I live that I wouldn't give up for a relationship with someone.

    Just to add my two cents: I tend to look at love (or any human relationship, really) as something to enjoy and experience for whatever it is or ends up being. Just because I can't see myself staying with someone for a long time, that doesn't mean I can't invest a little into our relationship and enjoy it while it lasts. I'm still going to gain an interesting and hopefully positive experience from that, learn things about myself, get to know a marvelous human and be enriched as a result of knowing them - even if that relationship doesn't satisfy all my needs or last a very long time.

    That said, obviously investing in relationships does take time and emotional energy. If I'm at a point in my life where I don't really have that to spare and I want to reserve my energy for something I think could be uniquely special, that's okay too and might be more practical at that time.

    Overall though, I think seeing love as a means to an end is quite limiting (at least for me) and that outlook would stop me from having a lot of amazing experiences with people. I've also never been keen on the idea that relationships that end 'didn't work out' or 'failed'. For me, relationships simply run their course. Different relationships might end up at different destinations for different reasons and that's okay - the process of getting there can be worthwhile regardless.

    So, I guess I lean more towards the second view. I also think there's a lot of truth in this:

    @Han93 said:
    I think what's worked for me with both cases is that I never really looked for love, it just kind of came to me so I think that's my top tip. It will come to you again and it will be brilliant <3
    All behaviour is a need trying to be met.

    Want to join the community champions? Drop @TheMix a message!
    Evelyn360
  • MaisyMaisy The Mix convert CymruPosts: 372 Moderator
    This is really interesting!

    For me, my views on love has definitely changed over the years and I've found myself going from the first side to the second side. Of course, you might not change how you see love and that's okay. 

    My first and only 'real' relationship was when I was 15-16. I thought I was in love and that we were going to get married and have children one day. Looking back, I realise that was definitely not love (more infatuation) though I did learn a lot about myself from that relationship. Then later on, when I had an opportunity to date someone else, I thought that there was no point, unless they were going to be 'the one'. I didn't see the point in being in a relationship if it wasn't going to be serious and long lasting. 

    However, almost a decade later and due to things happening in my personal life, I seem to have changed my mind quite a bit. I started thinking about whether I actually wanted to get married, whether I actually wanted to have children, and I realised I am really unsure. I see many people on social media in the last few years getting into relationships, moving in, getting married and having children. And that urge or desire just isn't there for me and I don't think it ever was. I don't feel any actual desire to put myself out there and go on dates whether they are casual or for more serious things. For me personally, if I happen to meet someone and we became friends and realised we had feelings for each other, then I may date them but I think I'd be more open minded? I think that if I was dating, I wouldn't have much in the way of expectations, I think I would just be enjoying it for what it was, regardless of whether love comes into it or not? Other than that, I'm quite content to remain single.

    That said, I've recently been interested in the different types of love too. I do actually love a friend of mine, but in a platonic way. I've realised that since I am so unsure about dating and romantic relationships, that it doesn't have to stop me from feeling love in other ways such as platonic with a close friend. Granted, it did start off as an obsession (I may or may not be on the autistic spectrum and I also have had some trauma in my life so I'm not the most emotionally mature person and can be prone to obsessions at times :p) but since she has known me for the majority of my life then I do believe that it has blossomed into a platonic type of love. However, I may struggle if I was in a romantic relationship with someone else as I may feel that I can't love two people at once, even though they are different types of love. I could be wrong and maybe I can, but I don't know. 

    Then again, as it's been said, love is different for everyone and there isn't a right or wrong way to feel about it. I can't really say what I would do in your situation or which side I agree with most, but I can see both sides!
  • NekolovesteaNekolovestea Posts: 57 Boards Initiate
    Sorry for the late reponse, and thank you all for answering. 

    I have read attentively all of your answers, and I can see that most of you are coing down to the second option, which is very nice to know. And all of you (and me too) seem to agree to the fact that love often comes to us, and I think it's also a reason why I see love the way I do.

    To answer you @Evelyn360, I would first of all say that my love for my ex is not as, well let's say, intense as it was at the beginning, and I've had a good deal of problems at the beginning, especially about some sort of irrationality in my love, which is present still now but is only the remnants of what happened before. So I would say my love is similar in causes but more, well, sane or less intense in a way, I hope you get what I'm saying even though it may be a bit confused. Now to get to the real question, I believe my vision of love what kind of the same, well I have always been very slow and, like this, I don't know how to define myself lol, but just less developped. Like I think I started to think about love, and since my vision of life has always been the same, my vision of love has inevitably become like my vision of life, which means very serious and based on goals and orgnaization, in a way, which doesn't mean I don't think feelings are important, but you understand I'm sure, and now I'm getting more and more confused about what I'm trying to say. Anyway, the way this relationship went was both awesome and disastrous (at least in the short term), but now I feel like the relationship just confirmed what I wanted, like it just made things clearer as to what I wanted in a relationship, even though it may be kind of bisaed since I have know only one "type" of love. Sorry for the confusing paragraph it's kind of hard to make everything make sense with this format.

    So I have been in an argument yesterday with my best friend who I was talking about in the original post. Basically the way I introduced to conversation was by saying that I was scared about the fact that I might regret my youth in the future, based on my vision of love, as I see more and more people in couple, and I hear more and more people talking about the fact that they had sex, even somebody in my class was talking to me about how he got drunk that one night during a party. And honestly, call me sensitive or whatever, but I find it chocking, like I see these people everyday and I would never imagine them do this at 15 years old, but I have always been very cut off from this "world" which is one of the reasons why I find it chocking. I look at all of this and I tell myself that I'm nowhere close to doing all this stuff, if I ever do in my life. Her reaction to what I told her was that she thinks my life is sad and I'm stupid for thinking this way, a "coward" I quote. I though it was quite insulting because even though we have very different lifestyles, I have never caleld her anything like that, but it's interesting to see how she views my choices. My point was that to me her life is sad, but that I understand that it's just relative to what one likes. I know she wouldn't like my life, and I wouldn't like hers, but neitehr of us have actually tried the other's lifestyle. The thing is I just feel like I would waste my time trying because I basically feel attracted to nobody of my age, neither physically nor mentally, and I don't want to force myself in a relationship, but at the same time I'm scared that I might regret it one day, that's basically the dilemma I'm in.

    I've told another person about this, and he says that at my age people should be doing trial and error so that we don't marry someone we don't love, and while I do agree to some extent, I also think I'm quite safe from that, since I don't get into relationships until I truly know the person. Just to conclude, I'm lost as hell, and I'm kind of stuck between changing myself to maybe feel better in the future or stick to who I am, or at least to what I know of myself and go on this way.
    “You must see with eyes unclouded by hate. See the good in that which is evil, and the evil in that which is good. Pledge yourself to neither side, but vow instead to preserve the balance that exists between the two.” 
    -Hayao Miyazaki
  • Han93Han93 EnglandPosts: 309 The Mix Regular

    Sounds like a tricky situation. I think you just have to be true to yourself and if people don't understand the way you are, then that's really their problem and not yours.

    I think it's great that you don't feel pressured into having lots of relationships/sex and you should be really proud of yourself for that.

    We have lots of great articles on The Mix about feeling pressured to have sex, maybe you could have a look at them:

    Hope this helps :)



  • Knowledgepower14Knowledgepower14 Posts: 7 Confirmed not a robot
    Hiya @Nekolovestea

    I really admire your approach to love, along with fact that you take such careful consideration to those you have around. Love is so difficult to explain, and sometimes you can love someone in ways you can't even put to words. But love can change, love doesn't always stay the same.

    In terms of my own experience, I would say that when I was younger my view of love was a lot more distorted...I blame all the boyband music I listened to as a kid...but anyway back then I assumed that if I connected with someone, I loved them. Now that isn't the view I have now, but back then it was how I felt, and I think it's important to reflect that this view shaped how I view love now. One girl in particular I had a crush on for over five years - but once I graduated from school and moved away to start a new life in a new city, I realised it wasn't love.

    I hope I've experienced love now, not because I know I have, but because I've met someone else that I feel completely different about. The thing is, you can never be sure about love, you can never be sure if your feelings will change or if their feelings will change. Love is such a messy thing, and you're right, the perfect love really is one that feels like a proper goal - an achievement of finding out the true meaning of love.

    At the end of the day, love hurts as much as it brings joy. It's always good to be careful with who you love, but I think love goes beyond a marriage or a relationship or anything like that. Love is super subjective, but in my view as long as you love those who make you happy, something will fall into place eventually! I know it's so cliché, but loving someone else in terms of marriage or a relationship doesn't always guarantee a lifetime of happiness. But knowing in your heart that you value love, and you've given your all to love will make it worthwhile.

    It's tough to pass an opinion over your current predicament, but I hope you don't feel so lost soon. As someone told you, love is definitely trial and error. But don't let anyone change your perception of love if it's not how you feel. But I assure you, keep the love in your heart, and it will grow and keep you warm for the rest of your life, even if you can't see the results yet.

    Best wishes :)
    Evelyn360chubbydumplingMike
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