The importance of being genuine

TheMix

Truthfulness and genuineness on The Mix have been something the staff team has been trying to grapple with for a while. We decided to dedicate a pinned post to it in Start Here so we can explore it fully.

Authenticity (being real or true to yourself; not being false) is important for a community like this that relies on mutual trust and support. When someone supports you, they're investing in you; they're giving their emotional and mental resource to you as well as their time. Supporting someone is also an act of vulnerability because to connect with someone and empathise, you need to open yourself up too and we all know how hard that can be.

If that effort and vulnerability isn't met with some genuineness about you and your story, it can make people feel 'cheated' and the community might be less comfortable opening up to support you in the future.

We genuinely believe telling a false story comes from a need for support and  - crucially - that people who tell false stories about themselves deserve that support. This isn't a moral judgment; we're not saying this behaviour is right or wrong. Either way, it's a reality that genuineness is a non-negotiable part of joining a community like The Mix because of that emotional investment. If you feel compelled to present yourself in an untruthful light for whatever reason, we'd suggest using 1-2-1 services instead.
 
It's important to note that this doesn't apply to minor details. If you want to say you're a different age, or that you're at college instead of school to anonymise your story, you can and should do that. This only becomes a problem when emotionally weighted parts of someone's story turn out not to be truthful. For example, a trauma they experienced or a life-altering health condition they have.

Accounts that don't appear genuine are likely to be approached by staff, or banned outright in cases of obvious trolling or spam. We'll always make the best judgment we can as a team with what we know.

If you think someone is being untruthful in a harmful way, don't confront them or call them out; come to us with your concerns. This keeps you out of any drama and also means the community stays a warm, supportive place. Newcomers or lurkers who see someone being questioned about their truthfulness may be less likely to open up for fear of being accused of the same thing, particularly if they want to share a similar story. It's important we encourage people to seek support as much as possible.

It's also worth remembering here that we never know for sure what's true. Everyone deserves a presumption of truthfulness, even - and especially - if their story is an unusual one.  

Shaunie

Ops maybe should of read this earlier. 

Hate to be that person that always has something to say /borderline a Karen😂😭

but you’re telling me we have to not reply when someone’s story is not making any sense at all. ?lol? So we can’t be like “you said this, but now you’re saying this” like you’re meant to understand a situation before you can even support someone.

I’m sorry but I don’t think I have a filter where I can just not say something when someone is clearly not being truthful, somewhere, about something so serious. ( only if I was like yourself -a mod -where have to but i use this place for support) cause I mean i try but yeah I mean it’s easy for mods to say this cause not a user and you have to have completely different mind set to if you was a user. 

And I know you say to aviod it to aviod drama but some things need to be called out - like as in real life - you would just say it. You wouldn’t be like oh yeah stop let me go tell this person to tell them. (Ie a mod). Like we have our own voices and it’s life. We should be able to question in same way you would. Imo

Mike

Totally hear what you're saying here @Shaunie. The impulse to call someone out on these things is a natural and understandable one. This is your community first and foremost, after all.

but you’re telling me we have to not reply when someone’s story is not making any sense at all. ?lol? So we can’t be like “you said this, but now you’re saying this” like you’re meant to understand a situation before you can even support someone.

This wasn't super clear in our post, but it's okay to clarify and ask questions. We'd encourage you to do that to make sure you understand someone's story, as you said because you need that to be able to support someone. And there's no harm in clarifying the facts of a situation.

It becomes an issue when that person is accused of lying or things turn aggressive - that's when we run the risk of discouraging others from reaching out. It's also worth noting that hostility of any kind generally isn't helpful and is against the guidelines anyway, and that's a universal guideline that also applies here.

I’m sorry but I don’t think I have a filter where I can just not say something when someone is clearly not being truthful, somewhere, about something so serious. ( only if I was like yourself -a mod -where have to but i use this place for support) cause I mean i try but yeah I mean it’s easy for mods to say this cause not a user and you have to have completely different mind set to if you was a user.

And I know you say to aviod it to aviod drama but some things need to be called out - like as in real life - you would just say it. You wouldn’t be like oh yeah stop let me go tell this person to tell them. (Ie a mod). Like we have our own voices and it’s life. We should be able to question in same way you would. Imo

You're right - if someone appears to be lying about something serious, it's hard to have that filter. It can feel like someone is undermining and devaluing the legitimate experiences people have, which is tough.

One of The Mix's guiding principles is that everyone deserves support and kindness - even people who act in a way we might think is wrong. And that's something we need to uphold in situations like this. It might not be the norm for real life as you said Shaunie, but it's really important here.

We're not expecting everyone to be superhuman and show endless patience and compassion for someone who has annoyed them; just that we all do our best not to react in an unhelpful way. If you need to vent or get something off your chest, absolutely feel free to do that in an appropriate space (e.g. via PM).

We agree that, sometimes, things do need to be called out. And we can do that.

By letting the staff team approach people about this issue privately, you help keep the community free of drama which I'm sure we all appreciate, and it also means we can make sure that conversation happens in a supportive way. That doesn't mean there are no consequences (they may still be banned, for example) it just means we can help that person get the support they need, be it on or off The Mix. We also then don't discourage newbies or lurkers, as we mentioned in the main post. Win win, right?

Does that help? I'm not sure how well I explained things, so do share any additional thoughts. It's a bit of a crunchy topic and it's important we talk it out as much as we need to as a community. I realise this is quite a long post but I wanted to be thorough (and I can never do these things concisely!).

Shaunie

I am finding it really hard to not say something to someone lately. I can’t keep using this place when people are miss using It. And some people haven’t been here for as long as others to realise what some people are up to. And atm I’m just assocating this place as someone who’s constantly not telling the truth somewhere. (And to any lurker’s or newbies reading this there is a reason for when I feel like someone isn’t being truthful and it’s very obvious ). No newbie or lurker should be worried as if going to be mostly truthful about situation then nothing to worry about but when someone isn’t even good at lying then like. Ugh. And if point out the reason you’re asking then even the newbie or lurker would be like oh yeah that is weird

I used to support like nearly every single post. Like if you go back to other years I’ve been on here. Like I literally Replied to nearly every single Thread in h &W And most s&r. (Obviously not straight away reply so I wasn’t the only one lol and got annoying & bored of me). But yeah idk if you can tell, but past few months I feel like not as supportive cause putting me off. 

Imo yes it is wrong and yeah they obviously still need kindness and support. But does that make it right? It is deffo wrong. Just like people get angry
 at others.  Need support but doesn’t make it right and not seeking it where appropriate. 

It’s starting to feel really uncomfortable to be using this site as I feel it is an ongoing issue. Which is a shame. It uses q lot of time them saying it and then people believing it and it’s uncomfortable to read

Past User

I don’t think that we have the right to determine whether or not someone is being truthful. Some people’s lives are crazy. Something which make sense to some people might not make sense to others, therefore calling someone out based on your opinion, just because it doesn’t seem right to you is unfair, especially given that when we (users) call someone out it would be in front of others, meaning that IF their story was true, they’ve been humiliated and questioned when they simply just came here for support. This is not only cruel for that person, but it will also make others question whether they’re ready to open up, incase they get given the same treatment.

I believe that if someone comes with a story which isn’t perhaps true, they are still looking for support with something. Be it the story they’re telling or something they don’t yet feel ready to share. Some people may be testing the waters, seeing how the community reacts. Although it’s hard to support someone when their story isn’t quite adding up, it think it’s important to either let them know that they’re being heard anyway or bite your tongue and inform a member of staff who can deal with it behind the scenes. This saves any embarrassment for that individual and doesn’t make the community feel like an unsafe space to reach out.

If someone is indeed telling a false story then there is clearly a reason for it. If it were a troll, they’d be bored in no time. They are clearly needing some kind of attention/support. It may be the fact that they feel like their own story isn’t serious enough to be heard. I think this makes it even more important for us to always show kindness, if they know they’re going to be treated as a friend, they’re more likely to have the confidence to reach out for support with the real issue... there clearly is an issue. It might be that they’re lonely, you just don’t know and so it’s not our place to judge.

I think this thread is great and I really like the fact that we are being encouraged to message the mix privately with these concerns instead of dealing with them ourselves. I haven’t used the mix for very long but I’ve seen it myself, where someone was called a liar. It felt cruel to me, because what if it was true ? Not saying be gullible, saying give people the benefit of the doubt and if stories don’t add up, message the mix so it can be dealt with properly. 

Salix_alba_2019

I absolutely agree with everything you said @Shaunie.

 
@The Mix
Also at which point does it turn into enabling that kind of behaviour? How is it keeping the community safe? I do believe that their needs to be stricter rules when it comes to this sort of behavior as it can create tension in the community.

I'm guessing more than one person has mentioned a pattern in multiple accounts being opened with the same storyline and dishonesty so it's clearly caused upset. 

We all come here for safety and at the moment it doesn't feel safe. 

Past User

@Salix_alba_2019 but we are being asked to message the mix so that it can be dealt with ? Not just ignored. I think that the whole point of this thread was to make sure that the community is safe. If we are calling people out, we are literally gaining nothing whereas f the mix know about it they can deal with it? 

Like Mike said, it’s a win win situation.  

Salix_alba_2019

@Liam you're right, I'm sorry. It just doesn't feel like anything is being done. 

I feel like calling people out holds them accountable in my honest opinion and lets them know that it's not tolerated and that their behavior has affected other people.

Shaunie

[deleted post]

Past User

Don’t apologise. I read this thread as if something is being done, they’re just asking for us to allow it to be done properly. 

We don’t have the tools or training to sort these kinds of situations out. If we pass our information over to the staff who do have these things, it can be done behind the scenes to make sure the community is safe and honest.

I can totally hear you guys and know exactly what you’re talking about I just wanted to share my opinion lol.

Shaunie

I really hate to sit here watch someone clearly lying and people using their time to supoort something that isn’t real for the person. It’s hard not to call it out ourself

Salix_alba_2019

Liam said:

Don’t apologise. I read this thread as if something is being done, they’re just asking for us to allow it to be done properly. 

We don’t have the tools or training to sort these kinds of situations out. If we pass our information over to the staff who do have these things, it can be done behind the scenes to make sure the community is safe and honest.

I can totally hear you guys and know exactly what you’re talking about I just wanted to share my opinion lol.

@Liam gotcha

It's just hard not to get emotionally involved, i guess it's hit a little too close to home 

Past User

@Shaunie

I’m not gullible or daft. I just think it’s important to show kindness despite whether or not a story adds up. I know who and what you’re talking about and I also know that this person has been reported to the mix. I trust that they will deal with it appropriately.

please re read what I said. I’m not saying believe them. I’m saying it’s important for us to not call them out and for us to let it be dealt with professionally. 

Calling people out is asking for arguments and arguments will push away new comers and make the community feel unsafe.

Shaunie

And also. What’s the point in messaging the mix cause all be thinking the same thing but can’t do anything about it without Proof it’s the same person😂. But people still be here believing it cause haven’t been here for as long and it’s not unfair on them

Salix_alba_2019

@Shuanie Absolutely and because we've been here so long ( and prior to new people poping up) and seen the way things have unraveled with a person admitting after they were caught out, It's hurtful you know. 

I knew someone like this in m personal life and it got so messy 

Shaunie

Exactly. I literallyfeel like I read every single post on here’s so like i know when not right. (Forgot the word for that really annoying me) &probably read more than what the mix read tbh lol. Cause am sad. 
Edit the Word was vigilant

Even more annoying that the mix are probably thinking the exact same thing otherwise this post probablyyy wouldn’t be here.  But yeah just can’t prove it’s always the same person so can’t  do much. So no offensive lol but  it’s  hard to understand what will gain by messaging you rather than saying it out right on the boards lol. Apart from to vent but it’s still being unfair to others

Shaunie

Otherwise it would of been called the importance of believing people, not “the importance of being genuine” lol

Past User

I guess so @Shaunie & I hear ya. I probably misread the post, idk😆

Mike

Just to comment on the specific example you guys are thinking of... we wrote this post partly because we know this has been an issue recently. We're keen to keep any specifics out of this discussion, but we do hear you and a post like this makes it easier for us to act on these things when they come up.

Sometimes, addressing a dicey issue like this can take us some time because we think it's important to pick the right moment. If we act too quickly based on too little evidence, that's not a good precedent to set ourselves and we might also just be wrong. Once we reach a tipping point where we have a good case to bring someone, then we can approach them and address the issue. We'll also weigh this against the impact on the wider community because that's important as well.

It sounds like you guys might think this sometimes happens too slowly or that we need to be stricter on it - is that a fair interpretation? If so, that's good feedback for us and we'll certainly take it on board. Having clear messaging in this post should mean we can be more proactive in future.

@Shaunie said:

I really hate to sit here watch someone clearly lying and people using their time to supoort something that isn’t real for the person. It’s hard not to call it out ourself

@Salix_alba_2019 said:

It's just hard not to get emotionally involved, i guess it's hit a little too close to home 

@Liam had a really good point above, where he said they are still looking for support with something or need some kind of attention. Even if a story isn't genuine, the support need behind that behaviour is. Equally, your emotional responses to that are understandable too. Our goal here is to foster some empathy and understanding for both sides of this situation.

Salix_alba_2019 said:

@Liam you're right, I'm sorry. It just doesn't feel like anything is being done. 

I feel like calling people out holds them accountable in my honest opinion and lets them know that it's not tolerated and that their behavior has affected other people.

Really hear you on this one @Salix_alba_2019, and you're right. Calling BS in certain situations is important for accountability, and we totally agree with that. On a supportive community, that needs to happen in a certain way because the reasons someone might make something up can be so complex and emotionally rooted and ultimately not their fault, and we need to stay considerate of that.

It's worth bearing in mind that these things happen behind the scenes more often than not, which means you won't be aware of everything we're doing. A lot of that will be us having a conversation with someone, forming agreements, talking about points, etc. Either way though, it's fair if that doesn't feel like it's translating into any noticeable change and we'll take that on board for sure.

Mike

@Shaunie said:

And also. What’s the point in messaging the mix cause all be thinking the same thing but can’t do anything about it without Proof it’s the same person😂. But people still be here believing it cause haven’t been here for as long and it’s not unfair on them

@Shaunie said:

Even more annoying that the mix are probably thinking the exact same thing otherwise this post probablyyy wouldn’t be here.  But yeah just can’t prove it’s always the same person so can’t  do much. So no offensive lol but  it’s  hard to understand what will gain by messaging you rather than saying it out right on the boards lol. Apart from to vent but it’s still being unfair to others

To clarify: hard proof isn't absolutely required, but it's what we look for at first. If we don't find it, we tend to give the person the benefit of the doubt. If it continues and becomes a longer-term thing, then we'll just look to build a reasonable case for it and approach the user with that.

In terms of what's to gain from messaging us and not calling them out publicly: really it's avoiding the risk of those things we mentioned before. And if you tell us directly, we know it's affecting you enough to talk to us, which means we know it's impacting the community. That might then affect our decision-making process, so it all feeds into what we're doing and informs how we handle it. Plus, if you call someone out, that might well mean we need to give you points and stuff and that's not fun.

Asking everyone to hold back from making any accusations feels like a reasonable ask. We can totally appreciate that it might feel like our management of these situations is overdue at this point, and that's definitely something we can work on based on this feedback.

Mike

Also: thank you for sharing your thoughts on this guys. Conversations like this are really valuable, especially when they're balanced and we have different perspectives coming in.

Jellyelephant

This is something that has driven me mad recently and I avoid the boards more and chat even because of the situation we are all aware of. 

Personally I understand there is a need behind the lies but at the same time... say you lie about a serious issue the likelihood is that others on the site have genuinely had experiences around it. For example bereavement. I think it is extremely insulting for someone here for support on an issue to see someone blatantly lying about it. I’m all about supporting people but when it starts to affect and hurt other members of the community then it’s a problem.... and it clearly is affecting the community as you can see from the strength of feeling above. 

Also I think it’s important that we consider users and their ownership of their own community. It is frustrating having to run to the mix and let them sort everything out like some kind of teacher. Obviously we can’t be like omg ur lying!!!!!! But I do think that we should answer to each other in a way. Like xyz does not seem possible... are you sure this is how it happened? If you can tell us the whole story we can support you better. This gives them the chance to kinda backtrack and not lose face as such. 

I think the most frustrating thing for me is when people write a post... it doesn’t seem to make any sense so you ask questions and then every post they just admit more and more of it is a lie.... then see someone who is blatantly that same user but with a different name again lying and again about the same kinda topic. It makes me think the mix changes their names to give a fresh start. 

It is soooo difficult to not be allowed to say something negative. Just because you disagree or something doesn’t mean have to be offensive but if you can’t say anything it’s annoying because in any other situation I’d give them a chance to tell truth and then next step i would just say it how I see it. 

I duno what I’m waffling about now but it’s very frustrating 

Mike

Like xyz does not seem possible... are you sure this is how it happened? If you can tell us the whole story we can support you better. This gives them the chance to kinda backtrack and not lose face as such.

I'm just about to go offline but wanted to briefly acknowledge this @Jellyelephant and say you absolutely can say this. It's okay to clarify and ask questions if something doesn't add up. The issues come up when things become hostile or accusations start happening.

We'll get back to you in full once we're back online.

independent_

I think this post is really important, I must admit the current situation has been really hard because I don’t like to be seen to be unkind but it’s really hard to respond to these posts now when you have a pretty good idea that they aren’t true. I don’t like to see people ignored and posts not getting replies etc because I know there’s probably a genuine need there but it’s really really hard to be supportive and not say anything negative.

GreenTea

It's been really shitty to see people calling others out on the boards. It's off putting and uncomfortable and I'd hate to think how new comers see it and worry they will post their first thread and feel like something similar will happen to them etc.. I get where people are coming from and I've learnt to just message the mix, put users on ignore for a bit while the mix deal with it...

I'll admit I called someone out in PM and got In trouble for it.. it's not worth it and just creates negative environment.. just rant it out to the mix and let them work it out, a lot of work goes on behind the scenes. 

I feel like people should get points for calling others out on the boards..but that's just my opinion. 


I just want to flip this on the head for a moment, how would you feel if someone outed you on the boards and made accusations? (Delete this bit if not allowed)

independent_

I actually do agree with you there @GreenTea while it can be difficult sometimes not to say something it’s really important to hold back and not say anything. I’ve been here a long time and in my time here I’ve seen people being called out for things in some very horrible ways, and doing that should have points attached.

This is why when I see this going on I struggle to respond to the post itself because to do that and say something without necessarily meaning to would be really wrong. So I just avoid.

GreenTea

I get how frustrating it is, I do. I've had to bite my tongue a lot recently to avoid causing issues on the boards.. 
Sometimes its better to just mute them for a while and rant to the mix privately

Shaunie

GreenTea said:

I just want to flip this on the head for a moment, how would you feel if someone outed you on the boards and made accusations? (Delete this bit if not allowed)

? Just wouldn’t lie in the first place about something so big, and get caught up in what’s real and what’s not....if something I said contracted something and someone got confused by that so questioned me on it. I’d be totally fine answering any questions like that. And if someone wanted to accuse me of lying about anything like lol they can because I haven’t lied about support related things so there would be no confusion or any reason for anyone to accuse me. Unlike with some.   Where there is actual confusion. If accused me of lying for no reason I’d be a bit upset. But that’s unlikely to happen cause ain’t lying 

We should be allowed to question why things are contradicting things. As it’s confusing as anything. Idk why that would put new comers off when it makes sense to no one. Including them. 

idek why people lie. It’s not even support for you it’s just for someone who it might of happened to and I don’t understand it at all. 

I just feel bad for the new comers who start supporting people. And really believe this is true. While everyone else is kinda like yeah this is a lie and then later on the newbie is like oh wait that doesn’t make sense so you’ve been lying this whole time... it’s better for newbie to see aswel if anything. Otherwise they’re going to fee proper stupid if found out later and everyone kinda already knew.  And put them off every supporting someone online agin 

like jelly said. It feels like we have to tell a teacher lol. We aren’t kids. We can call someone out about it and not be horrible to them if something isn’t adding up. Just ask them to be more clear and honest as they can be

GreenTea

I just think publicly Calling them out is awful.. it shouldn't be happening and I do think a rule should be in place with points added if you call someone out so much..

Mute and report concerns to the mix Instead of risking get yourself in trouble. 

You also completely missed the point of my comment. 

Shaunie

GreenTea said:

I just think publicly Calling them out is awful.. it shouldn't be happening and I do think a rule should be in place with points added if you call someone out so much..

Mute and report concerns to the mix Instead of risking get yourself in trouble. 

You also completely missed the point of my comment. 

If I was a newbie and I’m supporting someone and getting so emotionally invested in their story... you do this is real life .... to find out later most people knew it was a lie. I would be very pissed off. And put me off completely 

calling someone out if done right isn’t awful. It can actually be done with understanding and kindness. Lying about such things is awful. 

GreenTea

But the calling out that has happened hasn't been with kindness