Manchester Attack

SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect!New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
Aidan wrote: »
Just a little something I wanted to say about the attack on Manchester.

This was not an attack by any race or religion. This was an attack on humanity by monsters. We will not give in to hate. We won't give them what they want. We're stronger than them.

There is no bad religion, just bad people.

Some of those killed were children. That's barbaric. Innocent children who've done nothing to anybody.

I'm thankful for the lives of everyone who has survived.
I hope all of those injured, for their families' sake too, a swift recovery, and I hope they can all make it. They're so brave.
I'm so sorry to everyone with family or friends who lost their lives. It isn't fair. May they rest in peace.
I hope those who are missing are still alive, ans thst they are reunited with their families quickly.

Please, don't be insulted because I'm trying to carry on like nothing has happened. I'm just trying to show these monsters can't win.

Feel free to post your own messages.

I'm afraid the evidence is that this certainly was a religiously motivated attack from religious extremists.
This is not to say I have a prejudice against any particular religion or race, it's simply a fact, and to deny that fact won't help us combat future attacks of this type.
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Comments

  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 649 Extreme Poster
    Skive wrote: »
    I'm afraid the evidence is that this certainly was a religiously motivated attack from religious extremists.
    This is not to say I'm have a prejudice against any particular religion or race, it's simply a fact, and to deny that fact won't help us combat future attacks of this type.

    'Extremist' and 'religious' shouldn't be used together. There's nothing in any religion that warrants extremism. We can't target or blame anything or anyone other than the terrorists themselves, or else we've let them win.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect! New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
    Aidan wrote: »

    'Extremist' and 'religious' shouldn't be used together. There's nothing in any religion that warrants extremism. We can't target or blame anything or anyone other than the terrorists themselves, or else we've let them win.


    Sorry but that's just twaddle. There's plenty of content in the texts of all three Abrahamic religions that promote concepts that by modern standards could and should be considered extreme. Murder, rape, slavery, sexism, homophobia etc
    Somebody who follows either the Bible, Talmud, Koran to the letter would certainly be considered extreme, but you could hardly say they weren't religious - as the centre of these religions revolves around those texts.

    Time to be honest. Religion does produce some absolute evil fucking nut jobs.
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 649 Extreme Poster
    Skive wrote: »


    Sorry but that's just twaddle. There's plenty of content in the texts of all three Abrahamic religions that promote concepts that by modern standards could and should be considered extreme. Murder, rape, slavery, sexism, homophobia etc
    Somebody who follows either the Bible, Talmud, Koran to the letter would certainly be considered extreme, but you could hardly say they weren't religious - as the centre of these religions revolves around those texts.

    Time to be honest. Religion does produce some absolute evil fucking nut jobs.

    This is a thread to pay our respects and condolences to those killed, and to be unified against the bad people in this world.

    Terrorists spread hate. You're no terrorist, but you're doing exactly what they want you to do. Be strong and stand against them, not with them.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect! New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
    Aidan wrote: »
    This is a thread to pay our respects and condolences to those killed, and to be unified against the bad people in this world.

    Sorry I thought you were using to to assert that this wasn't religiously motivated? I just pointed out that it was.

    The attack today is horrific, and I do certainly feel for those affected, but I won't go as far as posting message of support for people who won't read them. What I would say to those that may feel fearful following this attack - try not to be. The risk of being caught up in a terrorist incident is still extremely low, and certainly much lower than previous decades
  • ShaunieShaunie An empath EnglandPosts: 1,374 Fanatical Poster
    I have very very little knowledge of any religion and the reason for this. So i cant say much . But I would like to think that religion doesn't stop you seeing what is morally right and that there are people in the same religion who think it's just as disgusting as we do & cant generalise.
    “If we could look into each other’s hearts and understand the unique challenges each of us face, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.” ~ Marvin J Ashton
  • SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect! New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
    Shaunie wrote: »
    I have very very little knowledge of any religion and the reason for this. So i cant say much . But I would like to think that religion doesn't stop you seeing what is morally right and that there are people in the same religion who think it's just as disgusting as we do & cant generalise.


    Unfortunately religion and what is moral are often non compatible. I'm not attacking people of faith in general, I believe in freedom of thought, and as I've previously stated I'm not prejudiced against any religion in particular, but I have the up most contempt for those that let religious doctrine and works of fiction from antiquity be their compass for what is moral and what isn't.

    It's an inescapable fact many terror attacks are religiously motivated, as is most conflict the world over. Pretending that religion has nothing to do with these attackers, these acts, and these conflicts is just absurd. You won't stop these attacks by blaming all Muslims for the actions of a few, but neither will you stop them by pretending Islam has nothing to do with this.
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 649 Extreme Poster
    Islam, infact all religions, are modern and have moved on from the dark ages to adopt moral views. Christians don't stone homosexuals. Homophobics stone homosexuals. Muslims don't terrorize people. Terrorists terrorize people.

    There will always be good and bad people. Unfortunately, some bad people hide under the umbrella of a religion to make the world hate that religion. 92% of those killed by ISIS are muslims, for example. If ISIS is Islamic, they wouldn't be killing muslims at all. End of story. ISIS are not Islamic, ISIS are terrorists.
  • HannHann Meme Queen Posts: 3,407 Ultimate Poster
    Manchester Arndale was evacuated, one man arrested. Controlled bombing in Fallowfield near the hospitals...
  • SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect! New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
    Aidan wrote: »
    Islam, infact all religions, are modern and have moved on from the dark ages to adopt moral views. Christians don't stone homosexuals. Homophobics stone homosexuals. Muslims don't terrorize people. Terrorists terrorize people.

    Don't be so naive. The fact is that many followers of these religions still look to their thousand year old texts as a guide to morality. Zionists still justify the theft of land from the Palestinians by pointing to the Old Testament and to the Talmud. Wahhabism is Saudi Arabia's dominant faith. It is an austere form of Islam that insists on a literal interpretation of the Koran. Strict Wahhabis believe that all those who don't practice their form of Islam are heathens and enemies. Over half of Americans believe that the Bible is the literal word of God, without error.

    Whabbis are Muslims. Zionists can still still Jews, the IRA are still Christians.

    Many followers of these religions don't take their religious texts literally, however many still do, pretending that this is not the case is ridiculous.
    Aidan wrote: »
    There will always be good and bad people. Unfortunately, some bad people hide under the umbrella of a religion to make the world hate that religion.

    No they don't. Many people believe that their own version of the word of God is the only word of God and they have a duty to spread it - an idea promoted by the texts of all three religions.
    Aidan wrote: »
    92% of those killed by ISIS are muslims, for example. If ISIS is Islamic, they wouldn't be killing muslims at all. End of story. ISIS are not Islamic, ISIS are terrorists.

    fyi adding 'end of the story', 'fact' or 'period' adds no actually validity to what your statements.
    Followers of many religions fight among themselves over their interpretation of 'Gods word'. It doesn't mean they aren't followers of that religion. Catholics and protestants, Sunni and Shiite. They fight among themselves for exactly the same reasons they fight against other religions.

    You appear to be suggesting that terrorists cannot be religious, which is absurd. Daesh are Islamic, they are also terrorists. The two are not mutually exclusive.
  • MegglesMeggles Unicorn. Posts: 742 Incredible Poster
    religion has nothing to do with this. yes ok terrorists hide under a religion, but have friends who are Muslim and none of them would ever dream of causing harm to others. infact they preach for peace. I see posts on facebook saying they are ashamed to be part of a religion that is being targeted with such hate
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 649 Extreme Poster
    To be honest, as an atheist, I just think it's sad that people blow up other people over who has the best imaginary friend.

    Religion is not the issue. People are the issue. Bad people will exploit religion and its outdated texts for their evil purposes. Good people will use religion to express their goodwill and guide them morally. All because religion is subjective. Nothing is fact; everyone can interpret something completely different from the same texts and teachings. Luckily there are many, many more good people than bad people.

    You call me naïve, yet I am not the one giving in to exactly what the terrorists want- division, hate and ignorance.
  • MegglesMeggles Unicorn. Posts: 742 Incredible Poster
    Aidan wrote: »
    To be honest, as an atheist, I just think it's sad that people blow up other people over who has the best imaginary friend.

    best thing ive heard all day.


    tbh my thoughts arent about the religion and the bad people. it with those affected.. A lot of these children and young people were out to have the time of their lives. little did they know there world was about to be turned upside down by one selfish person
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 649 Extreme Poster
    I think I read somewhere that the youngest killed was only 8 to 10. There's no words for that. And think of her poor family. And all of those who might have survived, just to die painfully of the wounds later. I can't imagine what it's like to be one of those waiting on news of whether someone I love is alive or not.
  • MegglesMeggles Unicorn. Posts: 742 Incredible Poster
    Aidan wrote: »
    I think I read somewhere that the youngest killed was only 8 to 10. There's no words for that. And think of her poor family. And all of those who might have survived, just to die painfully of the wounds later. I can't imagine what it's like to be one of those waiting on news of whether someone I love is alive or not.


    yep, the youngest was an 8 year old. many of those injured were under the age of 16
  • SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect! New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
    Aidan wrote: »
    To be honest, as an atheist, I just think it's sad that people blow up other people over who has the best imaginary friend.

    So do I, but they do, and they have done for thousands of years
    Aidan wrote: »
    Religion is not the issue. People are the issue.

    Both are the issue I'm afraid. Religion has historically – and today – served as an ultra-conservative and repressive influence leading to social and cultural divisions, and has been the excuse for barbaric warfare, torture and executions.
    Aidan wrote: »
    Bad people will exploit religion and its outdated texts for their evil purposes.

    Saudi Arabia is well known for it's terrible record on human rights, it's supression of womens rights and it's terrible treatment of homosexuals. Are you suggesting all Saudi Arabians are evil people? Or do you think (like I do) it's more likely that due to the almost universally adopted Wahhabi belief that these things are normalized?

    As you say some religious people use their belief to do great things, but some fundamentalists also use it to commit terrible crimes. It doens't mean they don't belong to that religion. If you want to claim that religion can be a force for good, you also have to admit that it can be a force for evil.
    Aidan wrote: »
    You call me naïve, yet I am not the one giving in to exactly what the terrorists want- division, hate and ignorance.

    How exactly I'm I giving into division, hate and ignorance? If you're going to accuse me of things you better be able to back it up.
    You continue to claim this wasn't about religion, when it most certainly was.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect! New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
    evie_rose wrote: »
    religion has nothing to do with this. yes ok terrorists hide under a religion, but have friends who are Muslim and none of them would ever dream of causing harm to others. infact they preach for peace. I see posts on facebook saying they are ashamed to be part of a religion that is being targeted with such hate



    Religion was the motivation behind this.

    I'm not saying most Muslims are terrorists - it is possible to admit that this was a religiously motivated attack without blaming the whole of Islam for it you know.
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 649 Extreme Poster
    To be completely honest Skive, I can't be bothered anymore. I tried to send a message of hope and unity and condolences, then it escalated into a debate I no longer want to be a part of.

    I've made my points. I stick by them. I believe religion is something so subjective that it cannot be blamed for the ways in which it's utilised by terrorists to justify barbarity. If religion didn't exist, terrorists would site other excuses for murder.

    You've stuck by your points too, and for that I congratulate you and respect you. If I had a hat I'd take it off to you. I guess since I've given up first, you've won and I've lost, but the real losers in all of this are those who have lost their lives, and those who are going to because of the intensified regime of muslim-hating this attack has sparked.
  • MegglesMeggles Unicorn. Posts: 742 Incredible Poster
    Skive wrote: »



    Religion was the motivation behind this.

    I'm not saying most Muslims are terrorists - it is possible to admit that this was a religiously motivated attack without blaming the whole of Islam for it you know.

    I think you are becoming far too involved in this and upsetting some users. Maybe just be mindful how you speak to people and approach this topic as it is extremely sensitve and can come across as attacking a religion.
    At the end of the day, this is becoming a more regular situation and it's not about religion. It's the bad people hiding behind religion.

    Just remember that terrorism can be a touchy topic and I understand everyone has their point of view but sometimes debates can go to far and cause upset, in this case it seems it has
  • HannHann Meme Queen Posts: 3,407 Ultimate Poster
    University of Salford evacuated now...
  • ShaunieShaunie An empath EnglandPosts: 1,374 Fanatical Poster
    Think you need to be a bit more open minded. Get where you are coming from but people interpurt religion how they want and obviously use that to be the scum of the earth. For what ever reason don't think ill evet understand
    “If we could look into each other’s hearts and understand the unique challenges each of us face, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.” ~ Marvin J Ashton
  • MegglesMeggles Unicorn. Posts: 742 Incredible Poster

    It most certainly isn't about religion. It's a small majority of bad people hiding behind a religion to commit unthinkable crimes that kill thousands.

    Terrorism isn't about religion. It never has been
  • MegglesMeggles Unicorn. Posts: 742 Incredible Poster
    Hann wrote: »
    University of Salford evacuated now...

    London coach station was evacuated today too
  • SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect! New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
    Aidan wrote: »
    To be completely honest Skive, I can't be bothered anymore. I tried to send a message of hope and unity and condolences, then it escalated into a debate I no longer want to be a part of.

    Cherio then. If you can't be bothered with the politics and debate board then just avoid it.
    Aidan wrote: »
    I guess since I've given up first, you've won and I've lost, but the real losers in all of this are those who have lost their lives, and those who are going to because of the intensified regime of muslim-hating this attack has sparked.

    It's not about winning or losing. This is the politics and debate board. If you don't like opinions that differ to yours avoid it.
  • MegglesMeggles Unicorn. Posts: 742 Incredible Poster
    Skive wrote: »

    Cherio then. If you can't be bothered with the politics and debate board then just avoid it.

    I've made my points. I stick by them. I believe religion is something so subjective that it cannot be blamed for the ways in which it's utilised by terrorists to justify barbarity. If religion didn't exist, terrorists would site other excuses for murder.



    It's not about winning or losing. This is the politics and debate board. If you don't like opinions that differ to yours avoid it.


    skive.. not being funny, but you are becoming rather rude to other users now.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect! New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
    evie_rose wrote: »

    I think you are becoming far too involved in this and upsetting some users.

    The the greatest respect, I suggest if you get upset with somebody having a different point of view on a discussion board designed specifically for politics and debate, that board may not be for you.
    evie_rose wrote: »
    Maybe just be mindful how you speak to people and approach this topic as it is extremely sensitve and can come across as attacking a religion.

    I'm not attacking any religion, I'm attacking those followers of all religions that put religious dogma above all else. This is not a general attack on Islam. It's an attack on Islamic extremism.
  • MegglesMeggles Unicorn. Posts: 742 Incredible Poster
    Skive wrote: »

    The the greatest respect, I suggest if you get upset with somebody having a different point of view on a discussion board designed specifically for politics and debate, that board may not be for you.



    I'm not attacking any religion, I'm attacking those followers of all religions that put religious dogma above all else. This is not a general attack on Islam. It's an attack on Islamic extremism.


    In the greatest respect. don't tell me where i can and can't post on the boards. quit being so rude.
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 649 Extreme Poster
    What was even the point of them bombing some kids? Is this a tactical victory of ISIS over us decadent westerners? Sure it's sad, but if anything it has gained ISIS nothing, and only made public opinion on them worse than it's ever been. Idiots
  • SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect! New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
    Aidan wrote: »
    What was even the point of them bombing some kids? Is this a tactical victory of ISIS over us decadent westerners? Sure it's sad, but if anything it has gained ISIS nothing, and only made public opinion on them worse than it's ever been. Idiots



    It's gained Daesh notoriety, it keeps them relevant.

    [FONT=&quot]"With Allah's grace and support, a soldier of the Khilafah [caliphate] managed to place explosive devices in the midst of the gatherings of the crusaders in the British city of Manchester," [/FONT]
  • SkiveSkive No discipline! No morality! No respect! New ForestPosts: 14,773 Part of the furniture
    evie_rose wrote: »


    In the greatest respect. don't tell me where i can and can't post on the boards. quit being so rude.


    I'm not being rude. It was a legitimate sugestion. I have insulted anybody, nor have I used particularly strong language. I have simply given a different opinion, if that upsets you then a discussion board specifically designed to discuss different opinions is perhaps not the best place for you (though I think that would be a shame).
  • AidanAidan Clever idiot Posts: 649 Extreme Poster
    Skive wrote: »



    It's gained Daesh notoriety, it keeps them relevant.

    [FONT=&quot]"With Allah's grace and support, a soldier of the Khilafah [caliphate] managed to place explosive devices in the midst of the gatherings of the crusaders in the British city of Manchester," [/FONT]

    Well it certainly kept them relevant, I'll give em that. Unpopular, but relevant. Still think they're absolute idiots
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