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Israel,the Palestinians and terrorism
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
The madness continues more people on both sides murdered, houses and property destroyed and meanwhile the so-called leaders fail to move forward.
As someone who has lived (as most British people) with terrorism from the day I was born, I believe its time for all sides to negotiate regardless of status.
If pride has to be swallowed and memories erased then so be it, the alternative is an eye for an eye till we are all blind.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,1038892,00.html
The above article was taken from this mornings Guardian, I think the last two paragraphs sum up my view right now.
As someone who has lived (as most British people) with terrorism from the day I was born, I believe its time for all sides to negotiate regardless of status.
If pride has to be swallowed and memories erased then so be it, the alternative is an eye for an eye till we are all blind.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,1038892,00.html
The above article was taken from this mornings Guardian, I think the last two paragraphs sum up my view right now.
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Comments
Apparently Hamas has now said it might take the war to Israeli residences and apartment blocks, in response to Israel’s tactics. Things will get much worse before they get better.
Only one real gesture would be needed to kick-start a successful negotiation towards final peace.
But tell that to those who think the conflict can and must be resolved by military action.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3102244.stm
If they are so foolish as to carry out their threat I get the feeling all the suicide bombings to date will seem like an April Fool's joke compared with what's to come...
Very few people have sympathy towards Arafat.
That goes to the Israelis, and almost every group of Palestinians. Both the extremists and the ones with moderate views. He has never stood by his promises, to anyone.
That's all.
Yes, but will Hamas do it?
Very few people, I beg to differ
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/3103010.stm
Whether people sypathise with him or not, it is recognized that his removal by the Israeli government would not be helpful.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3102244.stm
Either way, I said I am staying out of these discussions. So that is what I am gonna do.
Judging by the images on TV as well as the international reaction I'd say Arafat has more support than Sharon could possibly dream for himself.
I'm sure Hamas and other extremist groups see him as a worthless dove, but you can bet that any attempt to remove him- which would almost invariably result in many deaths- will be seized upon by Hamas and others as the gravest affront yet to the Palestinians, and be exploited accordingly. Not to mention the tens of thousands of outraged Arafat supporters who would turn to more radical groups such as Hamas to avenge the act.
And thus you highlight the bigger picture.
They don't like him, but they wouldn't be happy for Israel to remove him. Besides, he lets them carry on with what it is that they do, so he's better than someone who would stand up to them.
You argue that Sharon is a block to peace, and I agree, but so is Arafat and so are the terrorist organisations who really don't give a shit about Palestine or the people. All they care about is the existence of Israel.
Personally, I don't think that Israel should expel him, but then they shouldn't have to...
But to remove one while the other is not only left in place but still calling the shots (if you'll pardon the pun) would create even greater instability in the region.
"Every journey starts with a single step"
Personally I would have preferred to see Sharon go first, but I'll take either at the moment if it ultimately leads to peace.
All he's guilty of is looking the other way. But even if he wanted a proper crackdown he would have great difficulty in doing so, with practically every Palestinian police station demolished and the force left almost powerless, all courtesy of the IDF.
Removing him by force would achieve little for peace. A mutual stand down by Arafat and Sharon would be completely different matter though... but at present there is a better chance of Ian Paisley becoming the next Pope than for that to happen.
Youd best do some better research my friend. Hamas is a prolific organisation who's social support and welfare measures are one of the few things keeping the population from utter despair and destitution. Their militant wing is but one facet to their efforts.
Getting rid of Arafat however, will not only be a slap in the face to all the rhetoric our leaders have spouted over and over about exporting democracy :rolleyes: , given that he is the rightfully elected leader (like it or not Bush and Sharon) but will, as Aladdin has said, merely galvanise and strengthen the cause of extremists.
The onus is not on the Palestinians im afraid but on those who have flouted international law repeatedly over the past 30 years (at the very least) finding any excuse they could contrive to block or ignore UN resolutions.
Let Israel honour its obligations and the Palestinian need for retaliation will be dealt the most telling blow possible with nary a shot being fired.
Fair point, one which I had overlooked.
Of course, the actions of their militant wing help create the very despair and destitution they then mop up...
Talking of which, how were Bush and Sharon elected again...
So only one side is to blame for the mess. Sorry I keep forgetting that.
:rolleyes:
So the Palestinians have only ever retaliated against the oppressive Israeli Govt?
How many hours did they wait, do remind us...
So defending themselves against a better equipped military machine supplied with all the latest high tech weaponry is the cause of their despair?
Do tell me how you would refrain from fighting back against those who have, for example, shot or imprisoned your family memebers, bulldozed your home to rubble and kept you a virtual concentration camp prisoner.
You must be one heck of a pacifist
Your point being??
No, but the side which has repeatedly pushed the processes into complete breakdown by refusing to honour their own internationally mandated obligations under internation law and who have consistently railroaded the Palestinians into greater and greater concessions would overcome the deadlocks in one fell swoop by actually coming to the table for once with every intent of achieving an equitable conclusion.
The Palestinians have repeatedly been willing to accept less in order to finalise the accord, but every time such willingness has given the green light to the ceaseless expansionistic plans of those driving the Israeli agenda.
Go do some research on what the current wall around Palestinian territories is actually intended to achieve. Its principle aim is to carve out large swathes of land to which Israel has no legitimate or lawful claim.
In some sense yes, Im afraid. Certainly the attempts of Arab states to destroy Israel nothwithstanding, the grievances of Palestinians whose families were forcibly driven off the lands they had inhabited for hundred of years at the time of the artificial creation of the secular Israel state have given them and their descendants the cause to retaliate against what they (and perhaps even you, in their place) would see as an illegitimate invasion of their former home.
At the present time however, Israel is a reality that will not and should not change, that is agreed. However, with outstanding obligations left unfulfilled on the part of Israel, such finger pointing as we have been witnessing is completely out of order from both Sharon and Bush.
[edited to say Im heading out for the weekend and wont be able to respond to any comments till Sunday at the earliest.]