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9/11 over 3,000 dead ...my thoughts are with them.

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
On the morning of September 11 I watched aircraft flying overhead. Minutes later I heard explosions and saw fireballs of smoke fill the sky. As a result of these attacks thousands died, including two good friends.
I am not writing about September 11 2001 in New York City. I am writing about another September 11 - an equally horrible one - in 1973. The planes I saw were warplanes and their target was the presidential palace in Santiago, Chile.
On September 11 1973 Salvador Allende resided in the Chilean presidential palace. He was the first freely elected socialist leader in the world, and ever since his victory in September 1970, the CIA and the US government, headed by Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger, were determined to oust Allende and his Popular Unity coalition.

It was on September 11 1973 that they succeeded. Led by General Augusto Pinochet, the Chilean military overthrew Allende, who died in the presidential palace. More than 3,000 people perished in the bloody repression that followed under Pinochet's rule, including two American friends of mine, Charles Horman and Frank Terrugi.

this led to hundreds being rounded up and herded into football stadiums where they were executed by firing squad. thankyou america for your anti democracy stances around the world and your death squads.

In Central America, Reagan called thousands of former soldiers of Somoza's national guard "freedom fighters" as they fought the Sandinista government in Nicaragua. And when the Sandinistas went to the world court to press charges against the US for sending special operatives to bomb its port in Corinto, Reagan withdrew from the court, refusing to acknowledge the rule of international law.

the inocent that died in new york have their evil anti democracy leaders to thank.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    you have a point there...

    But what would the world be like without stupid anti-democracy rights people etc? Would it become instable because of a lack of rigidity somewhere? Or just a haven for all? :confused:

    I confuse myself. I never knew about the Chilean stuff thanks for telling me that's :eek:

    Still my feelings are with the innocent who perished on september 11th 2 years ago; at no fault of their own.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My thoughts are also with the thousands of children who died due to sanctions on Iraq.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MoonRat
    My thoughts are also with the thousands of children who died due to sanctions on Iraq.

    Yes, but this thread was dedicated to the Chilean population who got tortured in the worst possible ways. Reason for this thread (I guess) is cause it's a mark date today. Exactly 30 years ago since Pinochet gained power from Allende.

    Btw, MR, I'd appericiate it, if you wouldn't drag victims from the 11th of Sept in NY into this. There's a time and place for showing dislike to a government, and I really don't think that's the case when memorising the victims.
    Other case with Chile as the states gave their support to Pinochet cause of their fear of Communism.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MoonRat
    My thoughts are also with the thousands of children who died due to sanctions on Iraq.
    an estimate of half a million kids dead or dying thanks to bush senior refusing to alow even basic medicines such as friggin aspirin into iraq! bush senior was a terrorist of the greatest magnitude. they do say ...like father like son.

    how about remembering the untold hundreds of thousands of innocent dead civilians in afghanistan and iraq ...slaughterd by the most ferocious of weapons of mass destruction... i hope their deaths are as important to you all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    mroll;this is the right attitude, america have carried out many deaths all around the world and you never hear much about them,do you, everyone seems concerned with america. I don't think all them innocent people in New York should have died, i don't support that, now what if the president had have got hit first in the white house, all this fiasco wouldn't have happened, there would be no more dead bodies in afghanistan and iraq because of Bush and his anti-terror war. People have got to realise that there are more countries, more war torn nations, more starving children in countries around the world...america again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper

    Btw, MR, I'd appericiate it, if you wouldn't drag victims from the 11th of Sept in NY into this. There's a time and place for showing dislike to a government, and I really don't think that's the case when memorising the victims.
    Other case with Chile as the states gave their support to Pinochet cause of their fear of Communism.
    just trying to get a balance here ...the other people need remembering as well ...not just those from the afluent world and it also helps put into perspective why so many inocent people died in new york ...beause of the evil acts of terror the americans carry out. no good just lighting candles is it. talking about why is more effective.


    *the states gave their support to Pinochet cause of their fear of Communism. *
    wrong ...they did not give support...they started the whole process .. they were out raged that a democracticaly elected government ...a long way from north america ...turned out to be a socialist one ...not comunist ...and here was me thinking democracy was where people voted in a party of their choice ...but only if america agree with that choice.

    and 9/11 is a very good time to air some grievances. many american families who lost loved ones are doing just that ...today.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Btw, MR, I'd appericiate it, if you wouldn't drag victims from the 11th of Sept in NY into this. There's a time and place for showing dislike to a government, and I really don't think that's the case when memorising the victims.

    I don't mean to drag anybody down, but at times like this people only remember those in the West who have died, seemingly disreguarding other people dying all over the world and those who have died.

    It just annoys me how people don't seem to reguard these people as so important. And I don't have a problem with the people of the incident, they're as human as anybody.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am fully aware of the fact that others have been caused grief, but it doesn't do anyone's memory any good to include the government bashing in the same thread. I really don't think it's appropriate.

    MR, Americans were afraid of communism gaining control in their own country, and for them Socialism is not very different from that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well I'm not bringing the country in to it, simply making a point. If you don't live the same way we do you get forgotten. I don't have any real problem with the government, but it's funny how we forget the millions in favour of the thousands.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yup. No government's perfect.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    I am fully aware of the fact that others have been caused grief, but it doesn't do anyone's memory any good to include the government bashing in the same thread. I really don't think it's appropriate.

    MR, Americans were afraid of communism gaining control in their own country, and for them Socialism is not very different from that.
    there are people in america this very day of rememberance who are protesting and demanding certain truths from their government ...having lost loved ones. for them this is a day when they will not go unnoticed. they are not expecting everyone to remain silent or forget certain truths today becuase they lost loved ones ...they are doing the opposite in fact. some will stay quiet and light a candle and shged some tears ...nothing wrong with that but not everyone wants it that way jacq.

    *MR, Americans were afraid of communism gaining control in their own country, and for them Socialism is not very different from that. *

    so if america gets scared or missunderstands its ok to send in the bombers and the death squads? what your saying is america hate democracy ...the will of the people in another country must match the will of the people in america ...or you get herded into the football stadiums of death!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    America has and are making mistakes. They know that. And we do.

    I just thought that this was a thread in memory of the Chilean people who were hurt during Pinochet's government. That's all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper

    I just thought that this was a thread in memory of the Chilean people who were hurt during Pinochet's government.
    instigated by america ...
    a thread in memory of all the millions america have ilegaly and imoraly killed ...to get some balance. the death of inocent people is always sad but why do people who die in america desrve more respect, more sympathy, more airtime than the millions of others elswhere in the world?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I never stated that.

    And to be honest in some years from now, this won't be that much of a big deal anymore. For now, there are still no answers explaining in detail why, which is what triggers people to react the way they do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hey it's the 12th now ...does that mean all the pretend emotions are over and done with folks?
    it was a shocking event but it gets right up my nose when people get all emotional and almost demand that everyone does the same.
    are you actualy holding one minute silences for the millions dying from malnutrition ...no, are you bollox. do you realize your emotions and memories are almost being manipulated by big brother, the media etc.
    some old lady walking 20 miles for a bucket of water ...only to find her family massacred by the time she gets back isn't quite as exciting as planes crashing into buildings is it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if every single person in the western world who earns a hundred and fifty pounds a week or more ...donated a quid a week ...a measly quid a week ...poverty, hunger and lack of clean water would be a thing of the past ...third world poverty and malnutrition consigned to the dustbin of history ...it's so easy and simple. more than that ...it would also cover the cost of all basic drugs and even hiv drugs. for a quid a week. but we don't realy give a toss ...that quid will buy you a half a pint of lager or six fags!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so can i encourage everyone ...anyone ...to part with a quid a week to a charity working in the third world? go on its only a quid ya tight wads!


    charitable donations have plumeted since the the lottery came into being ...cos most people it seems would rather gamble that quid ...at odds of 14,000,000 to 1 ...for the chance of a truck full of dosh. so they can live like kings.
    and heres me thinking we already lived in luxury compared to over two thirds of the worlds population.

    ok rant over ...i'll let you go about your dailys now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    mr roll, i already give £3 a month to oxfam, £3 a month to rape crisis, £3 a month to the british heart foundation and £3 a month to the nspcc.

    i cannot give money to everyone :(
    well good on ya girl ...i'm only trying to encourage those who don't ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    so can i encourage everyone ...anyone ...to part with a quid a week to a charity working in the third world? go on its only a quid ya tight wads!


    Nice thought. But everyone prefers to donate to different charities, depending on what they feel a bigger connection to. As long as people donate to something, it's always an improvement.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MoonRat
    My thoughts are also with the thousands of children who died due to sanctions on Iraq.

    and mine are with the thousands of people killed by a brutal regime in Iraq.

    Your point is?

    All Govts have skeletons in their closets, sadly because of it's power, the US is target number one for certain segments of the public.

    Certainly the Govts of Zimbabwe, Pakistan, India, Russia, Syria, Libya etc ad nauseum have also committed atrocities. So why do we just get hung up on one?

    @ Jacqueline. I think I understand MR's point here. We have a day which is getting huge publicity. The deaths of thousands in the WTC/Pentagon attacks is something which is being marked.

    Hidden though is an event which happenned on the same date. Something which the US isn't so keep to publicise or seek sympathy for. What MR has done here is bring a little balance to that.

    I don't think he meant to "diss" the people who died, more to mark the fact that countless others have also died, people who shouldn't be forgotten either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Perhaps it could be a good idea for September 11th to be an international day to remember all civilian victims of terrorism, dictatorship and wars.

    A lot of countries including our own have something in their history to be ashamed of, we should acknowledge this and educate ourselves and our children about this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    Perhaps it could be a good idea for September 11th to be an international day to remember all civilian victims of terrorism, dictatorship and wars.

    A lot of countries including our own have something in their history to be ashamed of, we should acknowledge this and educate ourselves and our children about this.

    I agree that an international rememberence day should be recognised.

    I don't agree that it should be 11/9. It just smacks too much of having a US lead. When you consider their track history that would be an insult to thousands...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    Perhaps it could be a good idea for September 11th to be an international day to remember all civilian victims of terrorism, dictatorship and wars.

    A lot of countries including our own have something in their history to be ashamed of, we should acknowledge this and educate ourselves and our children about this.

    Wise words!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    I agree that an international rememberence day should be recognised.

    I don't agree that it should be 11/9. It just smacks too much of having a US lead. When you consider their track history that would be an insult to thousands...


    I see what you mean, any day would do as long as we did it. Just think what just one day of education and dialogue would do, especially within schools and other educational establishments.

    But then again it may cause young people to think and ask questions so I can't see the politicians being too keen.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They know that

    Sadly Jacq, whilst more Americans may be realising this to some degree as time goes by, the numbers still show the efficacy of Fox News and other corporate US media at keeping the public largely deluded as to the attrocities committed by or supported by Washington outside the country.

    Do not presume that most Americans take the time to research world events as many on these boards do, its simply not true.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The same could be applied to the citizens of most countries Clandestine.

    How many Germans didn't know about extermination camps?
    How many Libyans, do you think, knew that their Govt supported terrorism? (as examples)

    etc etc etc

    Once again, hung up on the US :(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes a hang up on the US, since US policies are the subject of this discussion.

    Try to stick to the country in question. A country I might add, as a citizen, I have a right to decry for pursuing wrongful policies, now and in the past.

    If you want to discuss Germny's or Libya's past or current policies, go find some Libyans or Germans to discuss it with.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Yes a hang up on the US, since US policies are the subject of this discussion.

    The original basis yes, but I think that you'll find the discussion had moved on a little.

    Do try to keep up. I know you are going away fopr the weekend ;):p
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