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Bribery and Corruption

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Having just come back from a few day in Moldova I witnessed blatant corruption to the extent that the first thing a customs officer says to you is "present"

Not that I did, but if giving a customs officer 20 GBP/USD means that they do their job efficiently and don't mess you around, should it be done?

In Turkey (where I spent a day meeting and working with some refugees I have been supporting from the UK) bribery and corruption is normal. Paying a bit extra often means getting to the front of the queue and getting paperwork completed more quickly and therefore reduces the risk a refugee is face with, should it be done? With some demands there is no way of not paying -

example: a refugee in Turkey who has UN refugee status and clearance to immigrate to the US still has to pay 500USD at passport control in order to get out of the country and not be deported. How can this be right?

another example - refugees have to report to the UN offices at regular intervals - there are often long queues outside and various police and secret police monitor queues and subsequently arrest and deport people. if you pay a "fee" to the door security you can jump the queue.

As someone involved in humanitarian work, seeing people suffer emotional, physical and psychological damage by those in authority doesn't get any easier as time goes by and knowing that is a bribe is paid it will help them by reducing the dangers they face - should it be done?

sorry this is a bit rambling but it makes me mad that in trying to do humanitarian work one has to do things that one shouldn't have too, things that wrong - ie paying a bribe to save a life.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well what do you expect in such a westernised world? these people probably dont get paid good wages.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree but I don't know how to improve the situation. It's a similar story in Russia, where bribery and corruption is so deeply engrained into the system there seems to be no way out from it. You can buy a driving license without ever having had a lesson, pay the police to let you off speeding offences, buy your degree, pay someone to do your homework, and all this is just part of normal life. :(
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its all to do with the attitude some people have that money can buy them everything and get rid of their problems. no refugee is going to be able to pay that amount of money, unless hes a very rich refugee.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Franglais
    its all to do with the attitude some people have that money can buy them everything and get rid of their problems. no refugee is going to be able to pay that amount of money, unless hes a very rich refugee.

    or unless they have a sponsor who is prepared to pay.

    being prepared to pay a bribe in east europe/russia when refugees are concerned isn't normally about "money can buy anything" but about survival and about trying to get people to do the job they are paid to do, okay I admit they probably don't get paid well by our standards.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by hobbs
    or unless they have a sponsor who is prepared to pay.

    being prepared to pay a bribe in east europe/russia when refugees are concerned isn't normally about "money can buy anything" but about survival and about trying to get people to do the job they are paid to do, okay I admit they probably don't get paid well by our standards.
    yes, but corruption in western society is about the attitude.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm being a bit thick here but I don't quite follow you, most of russia and east europe are far from westernised, and this post was about corruprion in eastern europe and russia and also places like africa/india/south america
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    large parts of the countries you listed are actually partially westernised, india most definately is, parts of africa are, remembering africa includes places such as south africa and egypt, both of whom have richer classes of people.
    virtually everywhere these days is westernised to some extent in some aspect. even china.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who gives a damn if the Third World is corrupt? They simply bring crap on to themselves if they are.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by monocrat
    Who gives a damn if the Third World is corrupt? They simply bring crap on to themselves if they are.
    right question, wrong answer.
    the correct answer is that the rest of the world is so why shouldn't they be?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    a richer class doesn't necessarialy mean western, but I follow your point more better - so do you think it is right or wrong to pay a bribe when it is a case of life or death?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by hobbs
    a richer class doesn't necessarialy mean western, but I follow your point more better - so do you think it is right or wrong to pay a bribe when it is a case of life or death?
    no it doesn't, but increasingly the west is a club, which more and more people want entry to. people also follow these trends. hence the richer classes pretty much everywhere in some way are corrupt.
    and i think it is wrong, it is against my principles. by paying the bribe you are only contributing to the corruption and hence are no better. what is more important to you? your life? or the very esence that makes you what you are, your beliefs and principles? if you can't keep them then what do you have?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Franglais
    what is more important to you? your life? or the very esence that makes you what you are, your beliefs and principles? if you can't keep them then what do you have?

    what if your values and principles mean defending freedom and the right to live.

    Have you ever been in a situation whereby a good friend, a relative or someone you love has been illegally arrested in "westernised" east/middle east country and their freedon is attainable by paying a bribe, which despite it being wrong and ensuring the cycle of corruption continues, means someone you love won't be tortured or murdered?

    sorry long sentance but have you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no, but i have been told to hand over money or get the shit beaten out of me. funnily enough, i got the shit beaten out of me.
    quite similar i guess.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i guess
    but is taking risks for your self the same as taking risks for someone you love...

    if it was pay the money or we'll cut your child up in front of you what would you do?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by hobbs
    i guess
    but is taking risks for your self the same as taking risks for someone you love...

    if it was pay the money or we'll cut your child up in front of you what would you do?
    i dont know, im not even going to pretend to be certain that id stick to my principles then. but that is a situation id hope never to be put in
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