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israel...
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
i seriously dont understand why israel does what it does to the palestinians, because the jewish people possibly went through one of the most horrific events in history, then proceed to treat the palestinans just as evil-ey because okay its not on the same scale,but its still as evil
sorry just a rant because i thought they would have learnt a lesson on how to treat fellow humans from what happened to their people!
and no way do i support the suicide bombers, but i see the need for both sides to do gestures of good will to get the peace process moving on, and even though i dotn normally believe in self determination,which normally lands up with a country of one group/religion/whatever because i reckon people should get on with other groups and not form border betweens themselves, but there should be a seperate palestinian state oh and get rid of sharon! evil fachist bastard, but he got booed at a recent party conference for not being extreme enough,which is what worries me!
sorry just a rant because i thought they would have learnt a lesson on how to treat fellow humans from what happened to their people!
and no way do i support the suicide bombers, but i see the need for both sides to do gestures of good will to get the peace process moving on, and even though i dotn normally believe in self determination,which normally lands up with a country of one group/religion/whatever because i reckon people should get on with other groups and not form border betweens themselves, but there should be a seperate palestinian state oh and get rid of sharon! evil fachist bastard, but he got booed at a recent party conference for not being extreme enough,which is what worries me!
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Comments
Exactly. That's why Sharon has to be careful about how many settlements he dimantles. Maybe with the new truce, the work towards establishing a Palestinian state that respects the right of Israel to exist will progress. With the area's rich history and location, a peaceful region would benefit both peoples.
They dont exterminate them do they? The Jews were subjected to industrial murder , and I see no gas chambers or mass graves in the west bank.
Far easier to get away with it if it can be spun in the media as "self defence" or "fighting terrorism". Outright extermination would tip their hand far too much for the world to see and they know that.
Looks like you and pnj make wonderfully naive playmates.
There are no extermination camps, Clandestine, and we should never forget that aspect - no matter how bad we think the Israeli approach is.
In fact, weren't the attacks on the ANC and black townships done under the guise of fighting terrorism/national interests.
He's in the UK. Maybe you could hate him a little less now that you know that.
Murals of Osama don't exactly endear them to me.
Its a turkey shoot my friend and every bit as evil as any Nazi death camp. Only the tools of extermination and the rate at which its being carried out are different. The principles remain firmly the same!
pnj, I know full well he is in the UK, doesnt change how similarly you both subscribe to the tabloid spin on world affairs. If you were living next door to each other, im sure youd gleefully reinforce each other's delusions of having any understanding of the truth.
I'd call it a township. Soweto anyone?
I do get your point Clandestine, but I don't think that the two - Nazis and the Israeli Govt - can be compared so closely
And no, they cannot travel freely through those checkpoints. All too often those checkpoints are shut tight keeping them prisoners in the kill zones.
When a palestinian has his business taken away from him and given diretly to his isreali neighbour, when he is forced to wear an insignia, is denied the right to marry certain "races", starved, force to work in labour camps having been transorted there on an overccrowded train, separated from his family and then systematically exterminated (as an example) - I might agree with you. Until then I suspect that your anti-zionist/israel agenda makes you exagerate the situation.
I am well aware of the range of abuses to which the Jews were subject under the Nazis. Having a dual degree in Theology and Political Science, I did extensive Hebrew studies in a Christian University in the States and was even quite proficient in translation studies of Old Testament texts from the original to English. I have also been to numerous concentration and death camps in my travels around Europe as a student years ago, including Auschwitz.
Nevetheless, I maintain that in principal as well as, to a certain extent, in practice (those that I think matter most) the acts and conditions perpetrated by the Israeli govt on the Palestinians is every bit in line with what was perpetrated upon the Jews under Nazism.
Turning entire regions into walled in ghettos, denial of freedom to work and travel, constant attacks, random arrests, brutal interrogation measures, destruction of basic infrastructure leaving ever increasing numbers homeless, and systematic extermination (whilst calling it "fighting terrorists" (just as the Nazi's called the Jews who dared fight back in self defence))...
As for taking shops away and giving them to others, for you to suggest that ever encroaching settlements which take away all the best land from Palestinians whose families owned and lived on it for hundreds of years (as has happened with land belonging to the families of friends I studied with in the US) to give to Jewish settlers is not every bit as bad as what happened to Jews under Nazism is a reprehensible position for you to adopt.
Sharon and his govt do not need to adopt every last tactic of Nazism (badges on clothing, gas chambers, ovens, etc.. for those actions they are perpetrating to be decried as every bit in line with the vile principles of what the Nazis committed.
Remember too that some of the more sweeping methodologies would immediately expose the murderous nature of the Likhud agenda and they arent stupid enough to do more than can be spun in the media as "legitimate" defence activities. Gas chambers would immediately invalidate Sharon and his cadre and you well know that.
So, as I said before, you go right ahead and dismiss whatever you want. But do not try to justify your choice to downplay these heinous crimes against humanity by suggesting im blinded by an "anti-zionist" attitude. My assessment of the situation and of zionism as a movement is a result of the developments in this conflict, which I have followed at the political level for more than a decade.