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Cot Death - Kissing Babies on the Lips
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Ages ago I saw an article that said scientists reckon that cot death might be increased in household where people kiss their babies on the lips .. has anyone else heard this?
It kind of makes sense cos the mouth has more bacteria and germs then any other part of the body and if you kiss them on the lips you're transferring these to their tiny bodies - whose immune system hasn't fully developted yet.
It kind of makes sense cos the mouth has more bacteria and germs then any other part of the body and if you kiss them on the lips you're transferring these to their tiny bodies - whose immune system hasn't fully developted yet.
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At this time I was told to lay my baby on his front, was told it was the safest position for the baby, he died and now they say NEVER lay them on their tummy, babies must be placed on their side with something to keep them there (like a rolled towel) or lay them on their back.
The only ones I know are laying a baby on it's back so it can't roll over, putting it's feet to the bottom of the cot, using several thin layers rather than one heavy one, not smoking around the baby, that sort of thing.
And sorry to hear about that Becky
Apparently its more boys than girls so thats why i desperatley wanted a girl with my last baby, who is now 7
I'm sorry about cot death, i read omewher this baby fell out of its surrounding area on ts mum bed down the side and was squashed beside the radiator. The mum panicked and found him, the heater wa on and when he was removed some of his features had kind of...melted or somehtig.
Its sad to think so much bad can happen to something so innocent ;(
Crazy.
Yeah its one of the most traumatic things in my life, Ive learned to live with it but never got over his death. It took me a long time to actually want another baby because I was petrified that the same would happen again. I used to be very panicky if she was ill. I would be checking she was breathing all the time and was far too over protective of her, I still am which I think is because I dont ever want to lose her like I did my son.
Anyway enough of me
I do not like it when they say "new findings" because unless they have actual proof why write stuff and get people thinking they have found a cure? They should tell us when they have the scientific evidence that it is a certain thing.
Thats my opinion anyway
My friend just had triplets - don't know how they sleep at night - Apart from the crying - I'd be up all night worrying about them.
There are baby monitors now that show a series of lights that go up and down as the baby breathes - although it's not a perfect device and I don't think it wakes you up or anything if it doesn't detect non-breathing.
I remember years and years ago watching a programme about people that die in Police Jail Cells and there was some kind of new device that could detect a person's breathing (as long as they were the only person in the room) and if it stopped - the on duty officer could check the cell.
I often wondered if that had been developed into a device for babies.
Sorry to hear about your baby, but glad to hear you have a lovely little girl! Hugs xxx
There are baby monitors now that show a series of lights that go up and down as the baby breathes - although it's not a perfect device and I don't think it wakes you up or anything if it doesn't detect non-breathing.
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We had a monitor for Becks when she was a baby and just did not like it at all. She could be in her cot and all you could hear was this alarm going off, there was nothing wrong with her. I was beginning to be a nervous wreck, not being able to sleep just waiting for this alarm to go off. Some people can only settle if they have the alarm but there are also lots more like myself who coulld just not get away with the monitor, so anyway I sent mine back.
As we had a cot death baby we were also offered a course to go on so that if ever she stoped breathing we would know how to rescussitate her. It was very good that course because it at least showed us what to do if anything happened, we actually worked on like a doll to do it.
The only things I would say to anyone who has a baby is dont over heat them, try to imagine yourself on a hot day with an outfit on, a little jacket, a hat and then a blanket you would be roasting, so the baby would also feel exactly like you.
Make sure they sleep on their back, or if you prefer on their side with a blanket rolled up into like a long tube and place that down by the baby so they cant roll over.
Never smoke where a baby is.
If baby is unwell dont put it off get them seen sooner rather than later, if a baby is not feeding then they can dehydrate so this needs to be taken seriously.
I never had a cot bumper, the padded thing that goes round the cot. Baby could get trapped and suffocate (probably very unlikely) but I was not prepared to take any risk.
I never let Becks sleep with me because I was scared incase she got too warm or if I rolled over onto her, but that was my preference.
Hope them bits of information can help anyone who may be slightly worried about cot death
And how, may I ask, do you think babies develop an immune system?? They can only develop one if they are exposed to germs and bacteria that are found around us every day.
A lot of illnesses such as hayfever and asthma are being attributed to the fact that we are too clean (as a society). Children are no longer allowed to play in mud etc for fear of what they might catch!
I have a friend who is ill 24/7 - she always has some tummy upset or is suffering from viruses and other nasty bugs, simply because she was brought up in an environment that was too clean and even as a young adult she is forever washing her hands and scrubbing herself.
There is such a thing as "too clean" and therefore I think these claims are stupid and utter nonsense.
I agree with most of what you say .. I travel to Africa quite a bit and there you never hear of things like children being allergic to peanuts... children there are generally healthier .. but try keeping an open mind .. there is a huge difference between a baby and a toddler or a child. We are talking about babies in this thread NOT children as you mention above.
And to answer your question
how, may I ask, do you think babies develop an immune system??
I'd say very slowly
The theory is kissing a baby on the lips bombards thems with too many different types of bacteria too quickly ...
I asked my boss this morning (she's a doctor of thirty years) and she said nobody in the medical profession takes these findsing seriously, and she said they had been knocking around for several years. She thinks the initial reseach was done by medical students, which isn't to say they aren't as clever, just that their knowledge isn't fully developed yet.
Your Boss can't speak for every Doctor on the planet and she doesn't know everything there is to know.
The fact she doesn't even seem to consider the possibility would worry me if she was my Docor. .. an open mind can work wonders.
Below is one example of a report from a study:
24 October 2000
Cot death link to mothers' kisses
By Celia Hall, Medical Editor
Doctors believe that a common bacterium usually linked to stomach ulcers and heart disease may also cause cot deaths.
It is possible that the infection is passed to babies in their parents' saliva by kissing or by licking a dummy or bottle before putting it in the baby's mouth. Although the exact effect of the presence of helicobacter pylori on the health of the baby is not clear, it may be part of a chain of events that leads to cot death.
The researchers say today that they found h.pylori in the tissue of nearly 90 per cent of a group of babies who suffered sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) compared to 12.5 per cent of a control group of babies who died from other known causes.
Dr Jonathan Kerr, of the infectious diseases research group, Manchester University, and colleagues say there is substantial evidence that infection plays a part in cot death.
He says in the Archives of Disease in Childhood that two genes associated with h.pylori were found in tissue samples from 28 of the 32 SIDS babies but in only one of the comparison babies.
Dr Kerr said yesterday that the results would be "very highly significant" if they were found to relate to the whole population. He said: "To parents we would emphasise previous advice related to known risk factors for SIDS, for example avoidance of the prone [face down] sleeping position and parental smoking. We would add that the transfer of saliva from carers to the mouths of babies should be prevented. Feeding bottles and pacifiers should not be sucked by carers."
Joyce Epstein, director of the Foundation for the Study of Infant Deaths, said: "These are interesting findings. It is only a hypothesis at this stage and it is uncertain whether this study has any practical implications."
Last year there were 419 cot deaths in babies in Britain.
Yes but you can't believe every hairbrain theory. She did actually point out that at a general medical convention the whole idea was laughed at. This theory also predates the 2000 report that you have spent your time searching for. This report built on previous suggestions.
You can pass on glandular fever by kissing, Cold Sores - probably SARS - why not other things?
Medicine is changing so fast these days so I dont think the older doctors are as clued up as newly quallified docs.
The point I was making was that if the bacteria that may/may not be connected to cot death are in saliva, and are passed on through saliva, a gentle kiss on a baby's lips isn't going to mean contact between parent's/baby's saliva. I can see where the connection is, especially when sucking dummys/bottles, but a gentle kiss on a baby's lips surely couldn't pass on enough bacteria to make any significant difference?
A lot of people lick their lips, so could get saliva on their lips that way. Also Bacteria is so small and light it can float in the air.
When you go up to someone with bad breath you're not touching them and yet you can smell their bad breath - because the bad breath molecules are travelling from their mouth through the air and up your nostrils.
So without even getting close enough to kiss you are already being bombarded with millions of their molecules.
In Cancer all it takes is a single cell in the entire body to screw up and start multiplying into cancer.
The way the cold virus spreads is through the air - it causes someone to sneeze in order to propel it'self out into the world to find new pople to infect.
The mouth has more bacteria then anywhere else in the body. And is the perfect enterance and exit for viruses to spread. That's why all those people in China were wearing masks to protect themselves from SARS.
All I'm suggesting is people keep and open mind about these things. I'd rather know about theories like this and make up my own mind then not know at all.
I'm not arguing with you, and I'm not saying that the report is wrong, or anything like that. I just think it's interesting how they use kissing a baby on the lips as the main example, when there are probably thousands of ways the same thing could happen - it's almost putting a 'kiss of death' status on it.
I think we need to be realistic here, theres no way you can prevent a child from being exposed to its mothers germs, A healthy baby would have a certain amount of immunity anyway from breastmilk, which is full of antibodies. unfortunatly some babies will unfortunatly die, its awful but true, and although you can lessen the risk in some ways, I think this is just one more way of trying to blame the mother.
Especially since they already blame themselves !!
Its like what did I do wrong?
What if when he had been crying if Id got up and checked him instead of just seeing if he went back to sleep? (which he did do)
He was very annoyed about the press coverage that it got.
The point of the research was that cot death COULD be caused by bacteria, but he's not sure. The press pushed him really hard and he admited that there was a theoretical risk (though totaly unproven and in his opinion very very very unlikely) that it could be spread by the mothers kiss.
The next days headline was something like "Mothers kiss of death"
Medicine is changing so fast so the newer qualified doctors are more in touch with what new medicines work better.
If I go and see a doctor depending on what is wrong with me will determine which doctor I go to see. I just personally feel that older doctors are kind of set in their ways and some do not seem to like change.
Sorry to hear that Beckyboo:)