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Is big fall in asylum figures good news?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Asylum figures for the UK have dropped by 32%. Is that good news on an abused system or a sad commentary on a growing distrust of immigrants?

Link for more info


http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-12324959,00.html

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wonder how many simply didnt bother applying for asylum and just slipped over the border?

    I find it hard to believe that refugee numbers would have dropped to such an extent during a time of war.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Others are questioning the figures too; according to the article.

    A cab driver in NYC who had been granted asylum from the Taliban was arrested for trying to by c4 plastique for bomb-making as well as taking a cruise and asking the captain how close cruise ships come to landmarks.

    So I can see the worry but there is a loss in not welcoming immigrants that's a sad outcome in the WOT.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The figures where for Jan, Feb and March?
    Also Sangatte had closed in December...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They haven't decreased - the numbers applying have. The true figures of asylum seekers will never be known because of the numbers coming in illegally, moving around etc.
    Home Office figures are never completely realistic anyway - whatever they're measuring whether it be crime or asylum seekers, there is a dark layer that exists that they don't uncover.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Does anyone else see the sadness in how we're, meaning all countries in the West, have come to suspect thousands of immigrants more because of 19 people who carried out 9/11?:(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    Does anyone else see the sadness in how we're, meaning all countries in the West, have come to suspect thousands of immigrants more because of 19 people who carried out 9/11?:(

    Only if you are paranoid. I think the issue here isn't so much the belief that assylum seekers are terrorists, but that they have little to contribute.

    I'm not saying I agree, just that it is one of the complaints about the current system.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so much the belief that assylum seekers are terrorists,

    See, in the US, that's exactly the fear. I'm not kidding.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with MoK, people in Europe are less concerned with terrorism I believe and are more motivated in their dislike (and often outright hatred) of immigrants by simple rascism and xenophobia as well as ignorance and hypocrisy (a heady mix :rolleyes: )
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    See, in the US, that's exactly the fear. I'm not kidding.

    It seems that fear drives many decisions in the US.

    It's fear that give you your guns laws for example...

    Perhaps you guys would do well to listen to the teachings of Master Yoda on how fear leads to the dark side :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That is so true, I vote Yoda for President of the US.....:thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    Does anyone else see the sadness in how we're, meaning all countries in the West, have come to suspect thousands of immigrants more because of 19 people who carried out 9/11?:(

    Hmmm...I think any anti-asylum feeling in the UK has been centred around the threat of them 'Taking our money, jobs, houses.' rather than any threat of terrorism. Of course the issue of terrorism just fuels the racist and xenophobic anti-asylum argument.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    emigration

    Funny how few stories or comment about the numbers unofficially leaving the country there are. I think they estimated 1 million between the last two census. I can personally think of many I've known now working and living abroad.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd recommend everyone interested in this issue to buy the Independent today or visit their website.

    A very interesting report indeed, and destroyer several right-wing claims:



    Claim: "Most asylum seekers are not in danger- they just come here to milk our generous system"

    Fact: "The main countries from which applicants came in 2002 were Iraq (14,940), Zimbabwe (7,695) and Afghanistan (7,380)."



    Claim: "We're being swamped with refugees and taking more than anyone else in Europe or indeed the world" (as claimed ad nauseum by the ultra right wing tabloid press)

    Fact: "In 2002, the United Kingdom was 8th in Europe in terms of the number of asylum applications per 1,000 of the population, with 1.9. Austria is top with 4.6"



    Claim: "The country is about to collapse under the weight of asylum seekers" (another lie told endlessly by the Daily Mosley, the Scum and the Auschwitz Express)

    Fact: The public has been misled about this to the point where: "According to an opinion poll last year, the public believes that the UK hosts about 23 per cent of the world's refugees, although the real figure is 1.98%."
    "The public overestimates by a factor of 10 the number of asylum-seekers in the UK."


    Claim: "Asylum seekers live a life of luxury, given a million Pounds a week, a free 10-bedroom house in Surrey, a 50ft Sunseeker boat and a share portfolio" (Well, almost if you get my drift about stupid claims by the usual suspects).

    Fact: "The public believes that the average asylum-seeker receives about £113 in benefits a week; in reality they receive about £36.54."
    £36.54... 70% of the minimum wage, and such paltry amount that most 14 year olds wouldn't accept it as allowance money. You couldn't buy exactly a life of luxury with that could you?


    Many more interesting figures are found in the article. I'd be most interested to hear the thoughts of anti-asylum seekers on this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: emigration
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    Funny how few stories or comment about the numbers unofficially leaving the country there are. I think they estimated 1 million between the last two census. I can personally think of many I've known now working and living abroad.

    That is an excellent point apparently up to a million mainly young men 'disappeared' between the censuses.....:confused:

    Also I believe upto a million British live in Spain, don't see the tabloids analysing the socio-economic effects of that do you? :rolleyes:

    Those facts are good Al, I think the tabloids should beforced to publish that list of points, those facts being common knowledge would surely be the best way to combat the BNP etc not fucking Blunketts brilliant idea of moving to the right to appease the fascists who are 'disillusioned' poor things........

    It amazes me that the tabloids can get away with it, why isn;t it illegal, sod freedom of the press, these peiople are scum :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    I'd recommend everyone interested in this issue to buy the Independent today or visit their website.


    Claim: "We're being swamped with refugees and taking more than anyone else in Europe or indeed the world" (as claimed ad nauseum by the ultra right wing tabloid press)

    Fact: "In 2002, the United Kingdom was 8th in Europe in terms of the number of asylum applications per 1,000 of the population, with 1.9. Austria is top with 4.6"


    Claim: "Asylum seekers live a life of luxury, given a million Pounds a week, a free 10-bedroom house in Surrey, a 50ft Sunseeker boat and a share portfolio" (Well, almost if you get my drift about stupid claims by the usual suspects).

    Fact: "The public believes that the average asylum-seeker receives about £113 in benefits a week; in reality they receive about £36.54."
    £36.54... 70% of the minimum wage, and such paltry amount that most 14 year olds wouldn't accept it as allowance money. You couldn't buy exactly a life of luxury with that could you?


    8th in Europe in terms of the number of asylum applications per 1,000 of the population > this is a different fact
    In pure numbers we are the largest.

    I would be interested to see what the 'average asylum-seeker' gets in other countries... Dont have time now supposed to be revising :P
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes but the pure numbers are irrelvant, Switzerland has a much smaller economy than ours but that doesn't reflect the living standards, which are higher than ours, what point are you trying to make.........?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They make the claim that we take the most in Europe ( I haven't seen figures for world)
    Which is true.
    We dont take the most per 1000 population but thats not what they are saying.
    We do take in more refugees than any other country in Europe.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True you are right........

    But don't you think that this justs highlights how sly the S*n and the others are in pushing their hateful agenda?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes.

    However I have not read the article yet, I intend to but I doubt they show any comparison figures for how much a refugee would recieve in say Germany (esp if its less)

    Other papers can be biased too :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well i don't see that it is that relevant really, the comparison should be with what people are getting in this country, the fact is asylum seekers barely get enough to live on. Every other European country is going to give them at least enough to live on by that country's standards.

    So ehat if Germany paid less benefits, whould we reduce ours so the asylum seekers starve? Typical British generosity there!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is relevant because if in the UK you get £36.54 and in say Germany you get £9.99 it would support the claim that they come here for the social benefits .
    Vindicate the right wing press the old left would never do that!

    I never suggested paying them less lol !
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But if the Germans pay that much then it will be adequate for the asylum seeker to live on agreed?

    So if our benefits are only just enough to live on also then it cannot be argued that people come here for the benfits.

    The monetary comparison is not valid.

    I know you wouldn't advocate cutting the benfits but the indiction of the right wing press is that people are encouraged to come here by our generous benefits so the solution would be to cut them.........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No not agreed, if we barely pay enough for them to live on I cant see why anybody else might do the same or pay even less.

    Our benefits may be better than theirs? < This is what I want figures on!

    And the solution is to share them out equally based on population size and a countries wealth between the EU (IMHO)

    And how am I meant to revise if you keep posting :p:D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely what is relevant is the proportion of asylum applicants per 1000, not the total amount!

    You cannot expect Switzerland, population 1 man and his dog and the size of a peanut, to take the same number of refugees as the UK, population 60 million and with vastly underpopulated land up north.

    This is not a slagging match or competion about who takes the least number of people in Europe. It's about distributing the number of refugees sensibly, and the UK sitting nicely in 8th place in the table has but very little grounds for complaint.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have to revise as well! We are locked in a spiral of non-revision badness! :crazyeyes

    Final point then I'm off (bye everyone, cu you on Monday

    :) )

    You are questioning that anyone would pay the same or less? That is what I was saying! You were trying to show that others might pay less which would back up the right wing press claims? So if no other nation would pay less then the right wing must be wrong!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The per 1000 amount is more important, but the claim we take the most is true.

    The UK is in a reasonable place but who would you expect to be at the top?
    Germany? France?

    Austria 37,000 4.6
    Norway 17,500 3.9
    Sweden 33,000 3.7
    Switzerland 26,100 3.6
    Ireland 11,600 3.1
    UK 110,700 1.8
    Netherlands 18,700 1.2
    Denmark 5,900 1.1
    France 58,100 1
    Germany 71,100 0.6
    Finland 3,100 0.9
    Spain 6,200 0.1
    Portugal 200 0

    EU Total 383,800 1.1

    But they may pay less and that right wing press would be justified (to an extent) I want figures dammit! :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What great stats. With the election of that right wing guy that time, I thought Austria was about keeping people out.
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