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Let's Pretend The Iraqi War Never Happened

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Let's pretend it never happened

Let's put Saddam back in power.

Let's put Uday and Qusay back under his power with armed Ba'athist party members.

Let's re-value the Dinar and then stop its use around the world, returning it to the stature it held before the war.

Let's round up all the children and put them back in prison for not joining Saddam's Ba'ath party.

Let's put all 3000 bodies back in the mass graves.

Let's put Ba'ath party members back in the south so they can kill the Shi'ite population simply for the crime of being Shi'ite.

Let's put Dr. Germ back in her office and re-instate the terrorist training camp that was functioning on the sprawling estate she called home.

Let's re-open Salman Pak so that terrorists can practice hijacking airlines.

Let's put Saddam back so that Palestinian suicide bombers can receive their $25,000 bounty for killing innocent Israeli civilians.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another c & p job from the NY Post pnj?

    I somehow doubt suicide bombers would receive any money from anyone, or be able to spend it. Think about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another c & p job from the NY Post pnj?

    Me? Take something from the biased, conservative NY Post? Nah, I c & p from a military blog.:lol:

    But it makes for a good discuss, no?

    Spin-laddin says no.:p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Let's Pretend The Iraqi War Never Happened

    How about:

    Let's pretend it never happened

    Let's pretend G. W. Bush didn't get the Presidency.

    Let's put Al Gore as the rightful winner of the last election.

    Let's see Al Gore continuing or even increasing international co-operation.

    Let's see the US not abandoning the Kyoto agreement.

    Let's see the US not ignoring the Earth Summit.

    Let's see the US not pulling out of the International War Crimes Tribunal.

    Let's see the US not tearing the START treaties and pushing with its missile defence shield.

    Let's see the Russians, the Chinese and others not feeling threatened by the US government and re-starting their nuclear programmes.

    Let's see sovereign nations not being threatened and called names in the biggest hypocrisy exercise ever seen.

    Let's see a fairer and stronger US in Middle East negotiations.

    Let's see (only maybe) the security agencies doing their job better and stopping the 9/11 atrocities.

    And even if they didn't, let's see a measured response to it.

    Let's see the US government not breaching the Geneva Convention of Human Rights and behaving like a brutal regime.

    Let's see the US government not spying, bullying, threatening and bribing nations at will in order to get their votes.

    Let's see the US government not raising two fingers to the UN and the world.

    Let's see the US not invading another sovereign nation in the name of geopolitical control and financial interest.

    Let's see the entire Arab/Muslim world not being pissed off with America and others to levels never seen before.

    Let's see diplomatic relations between America and Europe not descend into the disgraceful slagging match it's become.

    Let's see the world as an overall much safer and peaceful place than it is today.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Let's see the US not abandoning the Kyoto agreement.

    weighted to benefit Germany, China and other ...1,000's of US jobs lost.

    Let's see the US not ignoring the Earth Summit.

    Didn't want to get out from under our blankets during a record breaking COLD Winter.

    Let's see the US not pulling out of the International War Crimes Tribunal.

    Nice try. First, leech off the US for arms protection, then try to set things up to try our soldiers.

    Let's see the US not tearing the START treaties and pushing with its missile defence shield.

    And put our trust in the Muslim perverts and the Korean nut-job.

    Let's see the Russians, the Chinese and others not feeling threatened by the US government and re-starting their nuclear programmes.

    They're pseudo socialist democracies now.

    Let's see sovereign nations not being threatened and called names in the biggest hypocrisy exercise ever seen.

    I weep for the loss of Saddam.

    Let's see a fairer and stronger US in Middle East negotiations.

    Let's see none. Everyone just kills each other.

    Let's see (only maybe) the security agencies doing their job better and stopping the 9/11 atrocities.

    Nah, the CIA abused their power in the 70's...had to be cut back.

    And even if they didn't, let's see a measured response to it.

    More deaths to measure...agreed.

    Let's see the US government not breaching the Geneva Convention of Human Rights and behaving like a brutal regime.

    Screw Geneva...anything Geneva...cowards, Nazi money launders

    Let's see the US government not spying, bullying, threatening and bribing nations at will in order to get their votes.

    So no diplomatic efforts? *bows*

    Let's see the US government not raising two fingers to the UN and the world.

    That's three. See? *gestures*

    Let's see the US not invading another sovereign nation in the name of geopolitical control and financial interest.

    Look Ma, no Shi'ites! Puff! The Kurds have disappeared too. How does Saddam do that?

    Let's see the entire Arab/Muslim world not being pissed off with America and others to levels never seen before.

    entire Arab/Muslim? Just the Muslim perverts hate us.

    Let's see diplomatic relations between America and Europe not descend into the disgraceful slagging match it's become.

    It's kinda fun to watch.

    Let's see the world as an overall much safer and peaceful place than it is today.:lol:

    Spinladin :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Let's Pretend The Iraqi War Never Happened
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet


    Let's put Saddam back so that Palestinian suicide bombers can receive their $25,000 bounty for killing innocent Israeli civilians.

    Don't worry, all their sources have not been beaten.
    Yet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, the last few days have been horrible Jaq.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Re: Let's Pretend The Iraqi War Never Happened
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    Don't worry, all their sources have not been beaten.
    Yet.

    Not that Saddam had any influence on the actual preparation or financing of suicide attacks of course.



    pnj, don't you really think that the world would be a safer place had Dubya and his warmongering corrupt friends been kept out of office? Perhaps you think he’s done a good job so far?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    His organisations did provide financial help. And he knew it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But surely it is not clear that any Saddam funding was actually a primary motive for attacks.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Perhaps you think he’s done a good job so far?

    Honestly, I go back and forth over really liking the liberals that are trying to ensure our rights aren't being traded in in the name of security and thinking we must do everything to keep these murders out of the US. For instance, Californian towns are making parts of the Patriot Act illegal...the provision where librarians are supposed to track what people from certain ethnic groups are taking out of the libraries and turning that info over to the FBI.

    It's a tough call. I think if Gore had gotten in, we'd have closer relations with Canada, France, Belguim and Germany. I wonder if the Taliban would still be in charge of Afghanistan and Saddam would still be in charge of Iraq. One thing sticks in my mine. Osama himself said to the Iraqi people, just hit the US hard and they'll run away. They avoid casualties. So can we act less militaristic.

    However, on the other hand, Al Qaeda seems to be very fluid and adaptible. And even if I grant the Right that they were operating out of Iraq and Saddam was giving them materials or knowledge...still these people can make their own bombs out of materials within other countries. So the Iraqi War seems more and more tragic...and an incredible waste...except Shi'ite and Kurdish Muslims are safer.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg
    But surely it is not clear that any Saddam funding was actually a primary motive for attacks.....

    No.
    But he is still responsible for his support. And is still a factor in play, regarding the suicide bombings.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well if anything they seem more active since Saddam was kicked out.

    The fact is, as well as giving money to the families of suicide bombers (which I don't condone) Saddam gave loads of money to the Palestinians in general. That money was used for aid and many already starving Palestinians had been in even greater dire straits since the money dried up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think that right now Al Qaeda is acting like a dog...marking its territory.

    When you think of it...with all that has happened...Osama is saying the same thing: all Westerners out of this huge area of the earth that he wants for a radical Muslim state. (Including the area now occupied by Israel.) His goals really haven't changed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    Honestly, I go back and forth over really liking the liberals that are trying to ensure our rights aren't being traded in in the name of security and thinking we must do everything to keep these murders out of the US. For instance, Californian towns are making parts of the Patriot Act illegal...the provision where librarians are supposed to track what people from certain ethnic groups are taking out of the libraries and turning that info over to the FBI.

    It's a tough call. I think if Gore had gotten in, we'd have closer relations with Canada, France, Belguim and Germany. I wonder if the Taliban would still be in charge of Afghanistan and Saddam would still be in charge of Iraq. One thing sticks in my mine. Osama himself said to the Iraqi people, just hit the US hard and they'll run away. They avoid casualties. So can we act less militaristic.

    However, on the other hand, Al Qaeda seems to be very fluid and adaptible. And even if I grant the Right that they were operating out of Iraq and Saddam was giving them materials or knowledge...still these people can make their own bombs out of materials within other countries. So the Iraqi War seems more and more tragic...and an incredible waste...except Shi'ite and Kurdish Muslims are safer.

    the PATRIOT ACT!? you can't be fucking serious!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PATRIOT ACT

    That's the name of it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually Jacq i would suggest you go and check out what kind of payments were made by saddam. He payed the families of suicide bombers after the fact and doubtable that he paid every last family. Nor was his money the only money being paid in such a manner.

    This money is nothing but a meagre compensatory handout and has nothing to do with financing the pre planning of any given attack. That is the domain of the organised Palestinian groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad etc.

    Its best to keep things in proper perspective lest we fall prey to the Neo-conservative penchant for rewriting history as soon after an event as possible.

    A good start would be here...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,907876,00.html
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    That's the name of it.

    Jesus! Sounds like a certain very dodgy film... What does it entail? Shooting any foreigners you see? Ownership of a loaded assault rifle is compulsory?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But couldn't it be argued Clan that such payments would encourage bombers to sacrifice themselves if they knew they could make their families better-off?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Actually Jacq i would suggest you go and check out what kind of payments were made by saddam. He payed the families of suicide bombers after the fact and doubtable that he paid every last family. Nor was his money the only money being paid in such a manner.

    This money is nothing but a meagre compensatory handout and has nothing to do with financing the pre planning of any given attack. That is the domain of the organised Palestinian groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad etc.

    Its best to keep things in proper perspective lest we fall prey to the Neo-conservative penchant for rewriting history as soon after an event as possible.

    A good start would be here...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,907876,00.html

    It could alsop be argued that the money could finance a future bomber... whatever it was it wasn't 'compensation'.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They're expecting another major attack in the US. Just came on CNN. If that happens, the US will become even more militaristic and right wing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    They're expecting another major attack in the US. Just came on CNN. If that happens, the US will become even more militaristic and right wing.

    I.E Do exactly what Al Qaeda want.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The USA Patriot Act was/is a piece of legislation which Bush rammed through Congress with virtually no debate or public scrutiny shortly after 9/11.

    It was and is the underpinning for the increase authoritarian stance which Bush's Neo-Con cronies had been salivating for the opportunity to impose on the nation for decades.

    Basically, couched in reasonable sounding measures to enhance domestic security is an array of measures designed to give the federal government the right to not only monitor communications (telephone, email, etc..) which they already do in large part. But more insidiously, to use this information without court order or any judicial review process whatsoever.

    Moreover, it gives police and security services the right to invade premises purely on the basis of their only "speculation" that it might provide evidence of terrorist links. No warrant necessary.

    It also unleashed the frightening practice of collecting "secret" evidence which could be withheld even from the accused and his/her lawyer and only revealed during the trial. This removes all possibility of mounting a viable and constitutionally guaranteed defence against the quite plausible abuse of power contained in this Act.

    What is so alarming is that the use of secret evidence is a practice pulled right from the pages of Nazi and Soviet style secret police manuals.

    Just goes to show that the mindset of Prescott Bush (Dubyah's Grandad) who made the family fortune trading with the Nazi regime and making use of Jewish slave labour in his business concerns in Germany and Poland during WWII has carried down to his grandson, who has no trouble applying the practices of Himmler to the security of the US.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Palestinians have more than enough grievances and disenfranchisement to prompt them to take such extreme measures. No analyst on the Middle East worth his salt has once given credence to the notion that people were lining up to kill themselves for 25K.

    Remember too that the Bush camp despite its vague claims about this link has never specifically detailed just how many such families Saddam ever paid.

    Also remember that suicide bombing has been going on far longer than any such payments. Very unlikely causal factor. More to the point to cite the rage and anguish of watching your loved ones blown to bits by Apache Rocket attacks, or buried alive in Bulldozed housing complexes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .E Do exactly what Al Qaeda want.

    Indeed Simby. God forbid that pnj should for one moment turn off his fave propaganda channel and consider that such an attack would be proof positive that his Neo-con heros have made the US less secure for their knee jerk miltarism and perhaps finally realise that the WoT wont ever be won by conquering sovereign nations and threatening the planet like diehard Imperialists.

    Europe learned the imperial lesson long ago, obviously Bush will learn it the hard way and at the cost of untild American lives before the nation wakes up and boots his ass out.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Well if anything they seem more active since Saddam was kicked out.

    The fact is, as well as giving money to the families of suicide bombers (which I don't condone) Saddam gave loads of money to the Palestinians in general. That money was used for aid and many already starving Palestinians had been in even greater dire straits since the money dried up.

    To be honest I don't know which organisations he supported except from the ones commiting suicide bombings in Israel.
    Just beacuse he isn't able to give money anymore, doesn't mean that others will stop as well.
    I am just saying that I do believe that the tactic would probably slow, if there wasn't any finacial gain of it.

    Btw, what makes you think that the money actually went for that?

    I have said it before, and will happily repeat.
    Make some re-search about the wives of the aplestinian leaders. Where they live, and which lifestyle they lead?
    More importantly, how they've got the means to live like that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I understand Arafat's wife lives in Paris, and I'm sure she's loaded. How much of their fortune comes from the family and how much from misappropriated funds I don't know. However even if all the money she has comes from funds destined for aid, it would still amount to a small part of the total aid received. I don't believe for a second the Palestinian leaders keep all or even a sizeable amount of aid money; nor would the entire fortune they may possess make the Palestinian population much better off than they are now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    With the enormous amounts they get, they'd clearly lead a much more comfortable life, if the money was administrated as intended.

    After many reports, I do indeed believe that Arafat and the likes are able and actually do keep a bnig part of the aid, in their own pockets.

    The man has a far from clean history, and frankly he hasn't made any moves which are convincing enough for anyone to think he has changed the least. Except from the fact that he used to be more bold in public, than how he is today.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    With the enormous amounts they get, they'd clearly lead a much more comfortable life, if the money was administrated as intended.

    After many reports, I do indeed believe that Arafat and the likes are able and actually do keep a bnig part of the aid, in their own pockets.

    The man has a far from clean history, and frankly he hasn't made any moves which are convincing enough for anyone to think he has changed the least. Except from the fact that he used to be more bold in public, than how he is today.

    and I could say exactly the same about Sharon. Neither leader is credible and while that is true nothings going to move forward.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Saddam supported Sunni Hamas. Hezbollah is Shi'ite.

    monitor communications (telephone, email, etc..) which they already do

    I mentioned this on the government evolution thread, but there's an experiment being conducted on gathering all the information they can on volunteers. All of the person's emails, reading habits, occupation, spending habits, to create the ultimate profile. Right now it's just an experiment...but really sounds like the beginning of an Orwellian future.
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