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do unto others.

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
pnj and the like ...question;
regarding the treatment of american prisoners in iraq.
would it be acceptable to you if the iraqis were to agree to treat the men, in similar fashion to the way the americans treat their war captives?
i'll pressume for now that the answer cannot be anything but, yes!
so we see pictures of american prisoners in big orange boiler suits
with sensory deprivation aparatus atatched. no sight. no sound.
manacled. on their knees in the boiling sun. on tv all over the world.
i know i have done another thread about this very topic but threads tend to drift. this is a straight question.
please be good enough to answer with an explanation of why you believe what you believe regarding this situation.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes because it wouldn't harm the person physically.

    Saddam's newest thing is to lower people, feet first, into an industrial shredder as their families watch.

    One point regarding Amnesty International reports on our base in Cuba. It's a closed, military base. No one knows what is going on there. Point of fact, they gave them a prayer mat, told them which way Mecca was and gave them food that's appropriate to their religion. That's why some of these people, now work for us in Pakistan, Yemen and Afghanistan as special ops. Once you torture someone, you can't turn them. And that's the biggest thing we've been able to do in our fight against Al Qaeda: turn it against itself. There's some hard core Al Qaeda who will remain in prison until there is no Al Qaeda. And I'm fine with that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by pnjsurferpoet
    Yes because it wouldn't harm the person physically.

    thanks for that pnj. gotta say i am somewhat surprised.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course MR, living in his pampered protected little beachfront world pnj is supremely unqualified to understand the extent to which psychological torture can destroy the remainder of a person's life.

    What do you think, a year or two in Strangeways to snap the boy out of his delusions?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To many Kuwaitis, Saddam remains an irrational man who understands only the language of force.

    That was on a news article on the Yahoo News site area.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you ever forumlate any critical thoughts of your own or are you nothing more than a mouthpiece for the news we all are able to see daily for ourselves?

    If so, youll find we will soon tire of bothering to respond to you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not that I condone it or anything, but how else do you get through to people who are willing to die using terror attacks in the name of their cause? Execute them?

    Oh no, wait...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If by 'get through' you mean extract information, it is irrelevant whether they are terrorists, gangsters or drug dealers. Some people will refuse to colaborate with their captors at any cost. Torture is simply not an acceptable method of interrogation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And considering that any subject of torture will likely tell his captor what he wants to hear and not necessarily the truth, such methods have dubious results anyways.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I should know... my country excelled in extracting information by unpleasant means as long ago as the 1400s. And boy did they get results! You'd never thought there were so many witches and evil people in league with the Devil at the time.

    Nothing like a few hours inside the Iron Maiden get people in the mood for a chat.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Psychological torture is arguably more efficient in breaking a person down and has severe implications for that person for the remainder of their life. Whereas physical injury, although it can often cause related psychological difficulties, can be overcome.

    Human Rights are universal and apply to every single human being. There's no small print that says eastern terrorists have no human rights. There can't be one rule for one and another for others. Although there increasingly seems to be for one country in particular. No names mentioned....
    Originally posted by Kiezo
    Not that I condone it or anything, but how else do you get through to people who are willing to die using terror attacks in the name of their cause? Execute them?

    Oh no, wait...

    Instead of locking these people up and throwing away the key maybe we should be trying to understand fully what is driving people to such extreme lengths. Terrorism is an extreme form of expressing an opinion against something; of course such ways are wrong, innocent people shouldn't have to die for anyones cause. It is a lack of understanding and ignorance in the world that leads to terrorism. Lack of understanding and ignorance from both sides.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    If by 'get through' you mean extract information, it is irrelevant whether they are terrorists, gangsters or drug dealers. Some people will refuse to colaborate with their captors at any cost. Torture is simply not an acceptable method of interrogation.

    I was thinking more "Fuck with us, and this is what will happen", since death doesn't seem to deter them.

    Bear in mind I never said it was acceptable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Of course MR, living in his pampered protected little beachfront world pnj is supremely unqualified to understand the extent to which psychological torture can destroy the remainder of a person's life.

    What do you think, a year or two in Strangeways to snap the boy out of his delusions?
    i'm afraid it would just snap him ...end of story.
    now you have answered pnj, in the way you have, your going to have to be careful ...i'll be waiting!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown


    Instead of locking these people up and throwing away the key maybe we should be trying to understand fully what is driving people to such extreme lengths.

    We know why they're driven to such extreme lengths. It's the only way they know possible to get the Americans' attention, all be it for the wrong reasons.

    They're willing to give up their lives in the name of their God, beleiving they will be rewarded for their efforts in the afterlife.

    How do you propose we are going to change their minds about something they have beleived in their entire life, something so imporant to them, that they value it above their own lives?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kiezo


    I was thinking more "Fuck with us, and this is what will happen", since death doesn't seem to deter them.

    Bear in mind I never said it was acceptable.

    But you see, of all the people in the world would-be suicide bombers and other extremist terrorists are the least concerned with torture and death. At the end of the day they are the only ones prepared to sacrifice themselves for what they believe in.

    In any case violence seldom has the power to subdue terrorist groups and fighters. On the contrary, the more some people are made to suffer the bigger the number of new recruits to avenge them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, I know that, but I was offering a reason as to why the Americans done it.

    That, and revenge.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kiezo

    How do you propose we are going to change their minds about something they have beleived in their entire life, something so imporant to them, that they value it above their own lives?

    It's not just about changing them. We need to realise we are doing something to aggrevate them and we should think about changing that.

    If someone is so fanatical and so extreme that they will end their life for a certain cause you can't stop them. We know how and why these people form such ideas, to a certain extent. But whether we will know how to quash such extremism completely and then do so effectively is doubtful.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by ElysiumUnknown


    It's not just about changing them. We need to realise we are doing something to aggrevate them and we should think about changing that.

    True, but to honest, there's more chance of us changing their mentality than our foreign policies.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually changing our foreign policies and acting more constructively by giving back to rather than continually plundering developing nations for corporate profit would go far towards providing the necessary hope and opportunity that is currently denied to so many. That is one of the primary causes of rising extremism itself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kiezo


    True, but to honest, there's more chance of us changing their mentality than our foreign policies.

    The problem is neither will change till the other does.

    Stubborness is a crucial human fallacy. That and selfishness.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Actually changing our foreign policies and acting more constructively by giving back to rather than continually plundering developing nations for corporate profit would go far towards providing the necessary hope and opportunity that is currently denied to so many. That is one of the primary causes of rising extremism itself.

    I know that, I was saying the chances of us changing them are slim at best.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Actually changing our foreign policies and acting more constructively by giving back to rather than continually plundering developing nations for corporate profit would go far towards providing the necessary hope and opportunity that is currently denied to so many. That is one of the primary causes of rising extremism itself.

    Exactly.
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