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how much longer can you defend the indefensible?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
whowhere, pnj, murph etc ...how much longer are you going to defend what is increasingly becoming obviously a dishonest and corrupt regime? the corruption. the lies. the forged paperwork. the double standards.
this can no longer be about left right and centre polotics. this is about what we are seeing daily. being fed daily. what is being exposed daily. from the fact that the invasion of afghanistan was planned befgore 9/11. lifting "proof" off the internet. forging documents related to obtaining nuclear materials in africa. you all know the list by now for gods sake!
will any of you be honest enough to hold your hands up at some point and admit to being duped?
people supported hitler because he was providing employment and rebuilding the country. he was instilling pride and patriotism back into his people. they turned a blind eye when the jews started dissapearing. then the comunists. then the writers etc.
please wake up and have the courage to admit that your loyalty and trust has been betrayed before the damage done is irepairable!
sadam hussien would have been our best weapon against alqueda if we had behaved decently toward the iraqi people.
in "freeing" the people of iraq we are leaving them without food and water! we are destoying their cities! their places of employment and education. their places of leisure.
whiskey has gone up four fold in the bars of iraq in the last 48hrs!
please see the reality that is threatening us all.
this can no longer be about left right and centre polotics. this is about what we are seeing daily. being fed daily. what is being exposed daily. from the fact that the invasion of afghanistan was planned befgore 9/11. lifting "proof" off the internet. forging documents related to obtaining nuclear materials in africa. you all know the list by now for gods sake!
will any of you be honest enough to hold your hands up at some point and admit to being duped?
people supported hitler because he was providing employment and rebuilding the country. he was instilling pride and patriotism back into his people. they turned a blind eye when the jews started dissapearing. then the comunists. then the writers etc.
please wake up and have the courage to admit that your loyalty and trust has been betrayed before the damage done is irepairable!
sadam hussien would have been our best weapon against alqueda if we had behaved decently toward the iraqi people.
in "freeing" the people of iraq we are leaving them without food and water! we are destoying their cities! their places of employment and education. their places of leisure.
whiskey has gone up four fold in the bars of iraq in the last 48hrs!
please see the reality that is threatening us all.
0
Comments
Oh dont worry...Ill happily admit I was wrong and duped but as yet, ive not seen anything to suggest I have been.
You support the US stance on the war on Iraq etc., yet you believe that you have not at any point been duped.
In other words you believe that the American government has not lied, told half-truths, or covered anything up in the past 18 months, specifically relating to Iraq, Al Quaeda etc.
Therefore you believe the following:
...The list goes on. I'm sure MR and friends have a lot more examples to add to this list.
Me_and,
Your points..
1 - Yes it does.
2 - Yes, they have.
3 - Too many will die
4 - Im sure they have some plans but not enough for my liking.
I still support the war at this time. Incidentally I didnt support it until recently.
I'm not even going to try to argue...
governments lie..ALL governments lie.
I know the US govt lies and manupulates but I dont believe they are as evil as some would have us believe.
So since everyone steals something at some point in their lives, however small, it's OK for me to break into your house, steal everything you have, and use your kitchen worktop for a toilet, and you won't have a problem with that either?
Lying and manipulation is not illegal, nor is it as serious to me as crimes against me personally.
Yet BD, choosing not believe that the US gov is evil is not the same as supporting them in the face of clearly revealed lies and spin. Theyve shown how desperately they wanted war by using every contrivance in the book, which after being shown to be lacking integrity they simply disregarded international convention (which they themselves will be the first to call for when they themselves are in dire political straights) and started the attack anyways.
To support this is to say you believe that their ends arent just as suspect.
Thats as may be, but it is not yet the case. What happens as a result of this war has yet to be seen.
Basically I believe the world is a better place with the US govt in it and that in the context of this war, the end will justify the means.
Im not one who holds the US up as a beacon of virtue, I know they are as corrupt and manipulative as governments come. I know that their motives in this war are not as they have said and I know they are not selfless, but I also know that they are not totally selfish.
I dont patronise people on this board Clandestine, Id appreciate if you would try not to patronise me
Could you point out which part of international law this contravenes and how it does so./
You will have to put words alongside the punctuation if you want me to answer the question mate.
I think that the war is wrong and unjust and a diplomatic solution must be sought.
The unilateral will of Washington to go further than this with the ousting of the head of a sovereign state (as nasty as he is) who had not attacked or presented any viable threat to the US nor the UK contravenes the principle of "self defense" as contained in Article 51 of the UN charter and sets a precedent which other world leaders could follow by simply pointing back to the example we have set. Iraq though has every right to defend itself by any means possible now that international convention has been shat upon by Washington. They can't have it both ways.
Do you have anything put out by the UN, or any expert on UN law that supports that claim that this is a breach of the self defence clause, or is it your own interpretation?
And the horror of war hits home.
Im sure you are equally as capable of finding as much as I could on the net. Other than that would be hardcopy documents which I have no way of posting.
Here is one link though:
http://www.lcnp.org/global/Iraqstatemt.3.pdf
(there is of course a division of legal opinion on the matter as in any great debate)...
Oh I have done so..Ive read many articles...but have yet to find a definitate statement from someone in the know.
Article 51 is dependant on the issue of pre-emptive attack, whether it is legal or not.
1441 can be said to give the US the go ahead to attack Iraq.
There is nothing definitive as far as I can tell. Nothing from the UN themselves. Im perfectly happy to admit im wrong if youve seen such a statement.
Bush may have twisted much in his bid to justify this action but the fact reamins that the aftermath of the PGW put the fate of Iraq in the collective hands of the international community, not the UK nor the US. They jumped the gun and merely wish to exhonerate themselves with moral pontification and fear mongering about non-existent threats.
Still nothing to back those claims though.