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Other religions and Islam
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
The truth is, claiming divinity for Jesus is based on what people said about Jesus not on what Jesus himself said. Here is a place to explain the Muslim view of world religions.
Islam is not a competitor among religions. The Qur'an states that in ancient times every nation had its messengers of God. Many peoples possessed the truth, but have to varying degrees added to this knowledge with unsupported claims. So the Muslim believes that virtually any of the old religions stripped of its excesses points any thoughtful person towards Islam.
http://users.erols.com/ameen/missionc.htm#issues
Islam is not a competitor among religions. The Qur'an states that in ancient times every nation had its messengers of God. Many peoples possessed the truth, but have to varying degrees added to this knowledge with unsupported claims. So the Muslim believes that virtually any of the old religions stripped of its excesses points any thoughtful person towards Islam.
http://users.erols.com/ameen/missionc.htm#issues
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Comments
Kiezo: That's funny! Thanks! :-)
Did you convert to Islam later in life or were you raised a muslim?
So why do you continue to post as though you are trying to 'convert' us all. Shouldn't you respect other religions, or indeed those who have no religion?
I am quite confused about this.
Haven't got any specific quotes at the moment, but I've been told that at one point the Koran says that Muslims shall respect people of the book, and of one single God (people of the book/bible = christians and jews), and at another place it has a harsh description of what to do/will happen to those who won't convert to Islam.
Aisha, care to clarify?
Doesn't Islam reckon to be the 'uncorrupted truth'? If so, then by definition it's a competitor.
Are you trying to protelyze your faith or something?
Mighty statement, but can you back it up?
The Truth?
Or just something you choose to believe...
The Qur'an shows great respect for Christian and Jews. It does not say, as you had heard, that people who do not convert should be made to suffer. You could always read it for yourself and see. It is not as long as the Bible. Be careful in choosing the translation - some people went out of their way to translate Qur'an to English incorrectly in the interest of misinformation. http://www.al-islam.org/quran/ would work well because you see a few translations and commentary side by side.
Islam does not promote proselytizing in the same sense as some Christians have taken it historically. It is very clear in Islam that choosing a religion is a choice that needs to be made personally, without force. In Islam, it is taught that each person bears the responsibility for investigating the matters of God, religion, purpose, etc, to the best of his ability and making the choice rather than just going along with how he or she was raised or what is dominant in his/her culture.
what do muslims thnk of us athiests?
The Qur'an gives direct answers to questions such as "what is the meaning of life", "is their life after death", "why was this universe created", "is there a God". It's different from the Bible or other scriptures in that it is the_very_words of God, direct. "You" is YOU the reader and "I/We/Me/Us" is God. Its neither the story or life of the Prophet, very little information in it is about him - you have go to the traditions and history books for that. In that respect it doesn't sound "old". God is reasoning with you on a one-to-one basis asking you to consider this and that and doesn't these facts mean so and so:
"Finally, the Muslim really has something that one man can give to another: the Qur'an. This Book speaks to each reader asking him to consider the things that every man must admit. The reader is asked to arrange this collection of facts into a coherent whole and think on it. By reminding us of facts the Qur'an makes contact with reality as the Bible does. But the key difference in Christian and Muslim thought appears in the next step.
The facts are not simply a feature of the Qur'an. The things we come to believe in are directly based on these facts, deduced from them in the legitimate sense of the word. The good news of Islam is that a man who loves truth, detests falsehood, and fears only Allah has moved toward Islam and thus ultimate success."
http://users.erols.com/ameen/missionc.htm#goodnews
"So the difference in Christianity and Islam comes down to a difference of authority and appeal to authority. The Christian wants to appeal to the Bible and the Muslim wants to appeal to the Qur'an. You can not stop by saying: This is true because me book say it is, and somebody else would say something else is true because my book says differently, you can not stop at that point, and the Qur'an does not. The Christians may point to some words that it is recorded Jesus said and say this proves my point. But the Muslim does not simply open his book and say: No, no the Qur'an says this, because the Qur'an does not simply deny something the Bible says and say something else instead. The Qur'an takes the form of a rebuttal, it is a guidance as the opening says (Huda lil mutakeen). So that for every suggestion that the Christian may say: My Bible say such and such, the Qur'an will not simply say: No that is not true, it will say: Do they say such and such then ask them such and such. You have for example the verse that compares Jesus and Adam. There are those who may say that Jesus must have been God (Son of God) because he had no father. He had a woman who was his mother, but there was no human father. It was God that gave him life, so he must have been God?s son. The Qur'an reminds the Christian in one short sentence to remember Adam - who was his father ? - and in fact, who was his mother ? He did not have a father either and in fact he did not have a mother, but what does that make him? So that the likeness of Adam is the likeness of Jesus, they were nothing and then they became something; that they worship God.
So that the Qur'an does not demand belief - the Qur'an invites belief, and here is the fundamental difference. It is not simply delivered as: Here is what you are to believe, but throughout the Qur'an the statements are always: Have you O man thought of such and such, have you considered so and so. It is always an invitation for you to look at the evidence; now what do you believe"
http://www.thetruereligion.org/biblequran.htm
What does Islam say then?
"all are born pure"; Adam not just Eve ate the fruit but were forgiven by God after repenting, and all children prior puberty go to Heaven regardless of belief. After that you become responsible for your actions. God will judge you according to your opportunities -- a man in a jungle who never heard about Jesus or Islam or a religion will be judged on his "norms" -- it would be unfair to condemn him.
Everyone who followed their prophet in their time goes to Heaven; e.g. ppl at the time of Noah; ppl at the time of Abraham; Jews at the time of Moses; Jews at the time of Jesus and now those who follow Muhammad.
As such, if you are still searching, read the Qur'an and see if it *sounds* like God's book.
4:82 says
Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.
Sounds reasonable. God's book should be like him; perfect. No errors. No contradictions. Christians may wish to say this about the Bible but the claim isn't there and most bar the Fundamentalists say "there are errors - it 's the word of God and of man". The original got lost - that in itself means less than 100%? A translation is neither the same as the original and plus there's other issues such as the Bible is written in dead languages; the Qur'an is in a living one -- interpretation problems are less?
If you have, then erm, just lead a happy life...
"Every new-born child is born in a state of fitrah. Then his parents make him a Jew, a Christian or a Magian."
As such anyone who dies before the age of discretion/puberty goes to Heaven, regardless of belief, we are all born pure.
If someone was living on a desert island he will recognise by looking at the creation beside him - the sky, animals, life, etc -- that someone created everything and he will die. He may also believe in some sort of communication (in the same way bees are inspired to make honey or a spider a web or birds a nest) -- i.e. some sort of Prophethood between God and man.
But would you agree:
He will never think that someone - God's "son" has to come and die and redeem us all. He will never think because of Adam's sin we are all born in sin and inherited Adam's sin. Therefore Christianity is unnatural and man-made.
Islam is "din al-fitrah" man's natural way of life -- One God, the only thing which changes throughout history is the Law - the Shari'ah which is for a certain time and place in mankind's maturity.
I don't know if s/he wants to 'convert' or not, but Islam is a protelyzing religion, i.e. you have to 'spread the word'.
The norm for me is to believe that one day I will be judged on my ACTIONS, and not my beliefs. My belief is that good people goto heaven, bad people goto hell.
Now, I don't mean people who have made mistakes, or people who don't believe in God. I believe it will be the evil people, those who kill, hurt, and are truly evil.
People who do their best to lead their lives in a good way don't deserve hell, but according to EVERY religion they do, except maybe hinduism where they will be resurrected as a rat or something.
In Islam, because I don't worship Allah I am going to hell, EVEN though I am a better person than Osama Bin Laden, who has killed thousands in the name of Islam.
Doesn't seem fair to me.
Islam does not say categorically that all non-Muslims go to hell neither does it say if you are Muslim (just by "name") you go to Heaven. If someone among them is a believer, there may be some who do not go to hell. For example, what if someone is living in the jungles of South America and never hears of Islam? And what of a Jewish child who is misled by his parents but dies while young, before he had a chance to be accountable on his own? These people have different cases; they are not automatically barred from heaven just by virtue of their birth. Only Allah can judge their cases appropriately.
Someone who had an opportunity to understand and accept Islam but does not, no matter how much "good" they do, they may not get heaven. For example, let us say Mother Theresa had opportunity to know and accept Islam (I don't know, but let's just say). Islam says that all the good she did, she is rewarded for it in this world - maybe by her fame, for example, or removal of sickness, long life, maybe money, offspring etc... The point is that Allah is Just and everyone gets Justice, whatever that is.
The good that someone does for right reasons is worth more than good someone does wrongly. For example, prayer for someone's well-being - that is a good deed, but if the prayer is to a statue that cannot hear and has no power, then it is a fruitless endeavor. Maybe the real God will give you some credit for thinking of someone else out of His mercy; maybe He will even help the person you prayed for out of Mercy, but the statue does nothing, nothing at all. Someone that prays and prays to Jesus (as) or Mary (as), same thing. Some people say Jesus (as) but actually think "God", and so probably their prayer is different from the prayer of someone who says Jesus (as) and means Jesus (as), but neither is as perfect as the same prayer sincerely offered to Allah. [(as) is short for alahis salaam - peace be upon him/her]
There is a lot more reference to Heaven, Hell, Day of Judgment in the Qur'an than in the Bible. 1/3 deals with this. God ought to be telling you about these things. Alot of the Old Testament deals with genealogies, obscure names, numbers of people killed, how many horses certain Kings had, etc,
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. Qur'an 2:62 http://www.uah.edu/msa/quran/yusufali/002.TheCow.html
When the earth is shaken to her (utmost) convulsion; And the earth throws up her burdens (from within); And man cries (distressed): 'What is the matter with her?'- On that Day will she declare her tidings: For that thy Lord will have given her inspiration. On that Day will men proceed in companies sorted out, to be shown the deeds that they (had done). Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.
http://www.uah.edu/msa/quran/yusufali/099.TheEarthquake.html
Who is God?
Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. Qur'an 112
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand- hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things. 2:256
Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. And if ye do catch them out, catch them out no worse than they catch you out: But if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient. And do thou be patient, for thy patience is but from God; nor grieve over them: and distress not thyself because of their plots. For God is with those who restrain themselves, and those who do good. 16:125-128
The whole way the Qur'an presents its case to the non-Muslim is to demand for proof. e.g. The Christian says the Trinity is in the Bible. However all modern day translations of the Bible do not have the most explicit verse referring to it 1 John 5:7
Scholars have now found it was a note in the margin which was inserted into the main text.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/versions/1041084848-4521.html#7
Nowhere does Jesus *spell it* out.
2:111 And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." 2:112 Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to God and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
It's like throwing the engine out of your Audi TT, can you drive it? Why is the most explicit verse now out, if Trinity is the Truth?
Is that the sentence which every Muslim must say wholeheartedly at least once in his/her life, and which people say when converting to Islam?
ashhadu illah ilaha ilAllah wa dahoo la shareekah la, muhammmadur rasoolullah: I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of God.
Note the similarity with John 17:3:
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee (singular not a Trinity) the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
At the time of any prophet the creed was "There is no God but God and [insert name of prophet here] is the messenger". Always the same.
However, that short terse chapter is considered 1/3 of the Qur'an because it is so profound.
And having learned the ways of my enemy we go forth to fight. Be proud of them...there is nothing halfway about islam...they truly intend to destroy US all...if not physically then spiritually! Lest we forget 'conversion by the sword' as practiced in olden times by all sides!
Be careful ol boy, oft times that sword has proven to be double edged and if things keep on as they have been in the past year or so, it may be we ourselves who end up decapitated by our own follow-through.
I choose not to believe in Christianity or Jewishness.
I choose to believe in God, simple as that.
When I feel the desire to murder a few thousand people or touch up a young boy then I'll commit myself, but until then I'll just try and be a nice person.
Judaism
And I believe in nothing (In a religious snse) , doubt I ever will...I have no ability ro have that kind of complete faith in something icannot see, do not understand and have no passion for. IF when I die I find out I am wrong..well there we go...I'll be dead...who cares...
The thing I don't understand is people trying to convert 'non-believers'..I'm just not capable of that kind of blind faith...however, I'm not goingto knock other people for having it.