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I've warned people today about turning discussions into personal attacks. I realise political debate gets heated, but it doesn't need to degenerate into taking turns to lob insults at each other.
If people can't abide by the rules I'll have to stop them fouling the forum by banning.
-BB
now, where were we? firefighters?
But then do so should lots of other workers, will you be happy to pay the extra tax?
Really for me that's only giving the money back to my employers, isn't it?
The tax I pay this month, goes towards my wages next month...
When you look at Public Sector pay structure you find that nurses and fireman are paid alot less (approx £4k) than a teachers...
Does that sound reasonable? It doesn't to me, and yet I'm not suggesting that teachers are overpaid, becuase they aren't. What I'm suggesting is that people who save lives on a daily basis should be earning more. How can we attract people into these jobs when a trained fireman gets £21k, and a nurse gets approx the same?
These services cost money and are essential. Should be begreude them reasonable recompense?
They should be earning more. But rightly or wrongly, they aint gonna get 40%. Thank god Gilchrist has realised now and have started acting like adults. Fingers crossed it'll get sorted
But it's the way they've gone about it that's fucked people off. In the run up to Bonfire Night, and when there is a threat of terrorism to the country, they've threatened to go on strike. Now it's all well and good now they've postponed these strikes, but they were seemingly prepared to compomise public safety, rather than wait a month or so for the pay review.
Just don't get me started on the Tube drivers :mad:
I earn significantly more than that. Do I earn it - yes, but does my role deserve it - probably not. Can I justify why I, as a senior NHS Manager earn at least a third more than a Fireman or Nurse - certainly not.
Okay market forces play a part, certainly when it comes to Project Management, but they don't apply to the two examples that I have given, they a more a vocation that just a job. Should we really be asking people who do such a vital job for our country to do so for less than £8 per hour? Especially when we have recruitment problems, and especially if we want to attract the right people to the jobs, and not just those for whom this is the best they can settle for...
BTW The Consultants have been offered an 11% pay rise. Currently they recieve a basic wage of approximately £65k, added to this are "discretionary" bonuses, of which most get at least one and each adds approx £10k p.a.. When you consider that they also have private work too and yet it looks like they may turn it down...
It's really all about market forces and if there is a shortage of firemen then the wage will go up but to be honest I don't think that if most of those firemen quit their current job that they would do better else where.
The question is about whether it is actually possible for the economy to sustain big pay rises like this across the board because really it can't be just the firemen because that doesn't make the whole picture look much better........
Still, at least he was earning £8 per hour whilst he did it.
Whilst I don't dispute that £8, in general terms, is a good wage I cannot believe that we expect people to put their lives directly on the line like this for that.
Unfortunately there is not a lot of public money to play with. Fire-fighters deserve to earn much more, even £30K a year, but this figure will have to be reached over 4-5 year period.
I don't think you can argue this by saying there are people who earn more, of course there are and probably most of them shouldn't get paid that much.
I think it is more sensible to look at the majority of people who get paid less some of whom are at far more risk of injury/death than any fireman.............
Don't they then?
Have you seen the weekly wage of your average brickie/chippie?
My brother-in-law is a chippie and drives an almost new Merc. lives in a nice house. Hell even I can't achieve those...
Sorry but you are going to have to tell me who that is? Who else (apart from armed forces) routinely put their lives in peril, in order to save ours?
I have noted that the building trade has high mortality rate, but that is more a reflection of piss poor management than it being a necessary part of their role.
I think that even with good management far more construction workers would be injured/killed at work than firemen and because of this it is a part of their jobs thus they should be very well paid..........
They don't save anyone but the stats show that there lives are more at risk.........
My Gas man earns £27k, isnt the average wage £25k? Why would anyone take a job that risks their life for any less than £30k? Pay them it, Id pay the extra taxes to ensure good public services.
If we dont put money in then recruitment numbers will fall sharply (if they havent already), just look at nursing, people wont be able to afford to take the jobs.
So in 10years time, theres a firefighter crisis, and youre house catches fire in the night, you and your beloved tucked up in bed, 2 kiddies inhaling toxic smoke in the next room, will you think 'we were right not to give them the extra money, they're not worth it' or 'I wish I'd paid an extra 1p in the pound to ensure there'd be someone coming to rescue us'
Builders are not risking their lives to save others for goodness sake, the reason builders are in so many accidents is they spend too much time ogooling women passers by and not looking what they are doing! lol
But by your logic then construction workers should get paid more tghan firefighters because there lives are more at risk from there jobs......
PS I believe the average wage is less then 20k
Maybe you didnt understand what I was saying.
MY logic says that if you are asking someone to put their life at risk to save yours then you should pay them accordingly.
Well I dont know where you get your facts from about the average wage, so I wont argue with you, reports I read last year stated the average wage was £25k and the Goverments idea of 'affordable housing' in the south is £100k + which would back that up. The minimum amount the goverment says a family of 4 can live on is about £9k then it can be topped up with benefits to almost £13k. So to say a fireman would earn only £4k above the average low wage benefit claimer, in my opinion, is disgusting.
Why are they at less risk?
Because they reduce that risk, wear the right clothing and take precautions...
Why are builders at risk?
Because they don't.
Know what the average wage on an infantry soldier is? The guys who we pay to go out in a war zone, and take bullets and put their lives on the line for their country?
I'll give you a clue. It's nowhere near £30k.
I don't disagree that their pay is lower, however I would bring into the equation the additional things which are provided for them...
But on the whole I agree with you...
What we are looking at is the unfairness created by a basically capitalist economy, you have to decide which you like best......