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HSBC - the F*ckwits!
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
HSBC has decided to close my business account, because they don't like want I do: campaign to legalise cannabis & sell LEGAL cannabis related products – bastards!
Now I like a good fight:
1) WHSmith was soon sorted, when I got the Daily Mirror involved.
2) Private Eye was well sorted too after an e-mail campaign (hundreds were received) and Ian Hislop phoned me and agreed to take cannabis ads again.
3) After the threats of HIGH COURT action from VW Motors over a T-shirt design - I seem to have put them back in their box.
What, do you reckon to my chances with the global HSBC?
Well, I’ll give it a go – here’s the letter I’ve sent, at the every least it will f*ck-up a few people’s Monday morning!
Mr Graham Underhill
Branch Manager
HSBC
27 Market Square
CREWKERNE
Somerset
TA18 7LL
30th June
Dear Mr Underhill,
Mail Order Services a/c no.
I refer to our telephone conversation on Thursday 27th June and your letter dated the following day, concerning the bank’s decision to close this account.
During our conversation you made claims, such as my business ‘is involved in criminal activities’, later reduced to ‘gives the impression of being involved in criminal activities’, after I had pointed out my business had been given the all clear by the police. Indeed, not just Avon & Somerset police, but hits have been recorded on my website by other forces and central government – and there has been no claim of criminal activities.
Now I am a little confused that having asked you to put ‘everything’ in writing, your letter only says you are closing the account because “the nature of your business is not compatible with our corporate values” – no repeat of the slanderous claims you made on the phone.
Am I to believe that this particular red herring has been dropped? If not, I call upon you to provide evidence of your claim. If you are dropping these claims, I require a formal written retraction and apology. I do not take kindly to such slanderous behaviour that is detrimental to the good name of both my business and myself, and should this matter not be resolved as suggested, I will place the matter in the hands of my solicitors.
Now, as explained, as well as being in the ‘Canna-business’, I am also a campaigner for the legalisation of cannabis, a drug even the government now admits to be far less harmful than tobacco or alcohol. Cannabis is being re-classified soon to a non-arrestable offence, our third largest political party, the Liberal Democrats have adopted legalisation as official policy, and most of the rest of Europe is following or going to full legalisation.
Yet despite the sweeping changes, HSBC has taken a move against a cannabis related business, which only sells totally legal cannabis related products!
I, like many in the campaign, see the ‘normalisation’ of cannabis in society as an important part of the move towards total legalisation, and that means in all sectors of society including business and commerce.
According to government estimates, likely to be somewhat under estimated, there are SIX MILLION regular cannabis smokers in this country, and I am sure a large percentage bank with HSBC. I think they would be interested in hearing from the bank, as a ‘cannabis unfriendly business’, as to the bank’s policy on their personal accounts. I am, via my connections with other campaign resources in the UK and across the globe, in a good position to pass on the bank’s policy. Oh, isn’t the Internet a wonderful method for free minded people to communicate?
In addition there are thousands of cannabis related businesses across the world, and again I am sure many bank with HSBC, and again I am sure they would like to know how they stand with the bank. Via the mailing lists of all the UK wholesalers and the Dutch & Swiss seed-banks, I cannot only pass on your policy to your business customers in the UK, but most around the world too.
So, on behalf of the world-wide cannabis community, and considering your statement, “the nature of your business is not compatible with our corporate values”, I would ask you to spell out the bank’s policy on our community, with particular attention paid to these points:
1) Is it HSBC policy to close all business accounts held by ‘canna-businesses’, and if so is this a UK, European or Worldwide policy?
2) Is it HSBC policy to also close private accounts run by members of the cannabis community, and if so is this a UK, European or Worldwide policy?
3) If it is not HSBC’s intention to close private ‘cannabis’ accounts, can you explain to the customers, in not more than 500 words, why you are prepared to take their custom, whilst trying to restrict them spending their money with ‘canna-businesses’?
4) As a bank founded by Opium traders, and financed by the misery of millions of Chinese addicted to that drug, can you confirm if your ‘corporate values’ are published, in which case I would request a copy, or are they a case of ‘moving-goalposts’ to be used at a whim?
In view of the short notice you have given in relation of closure of the account, I look forward to your most urgent response.
Yours most sincerely,
Mike Cottee
Cannabis Campaigner
Canna-businessman
CC:
Chief Executive, HSBC Plc, London.
UK Cannabis Internet forums
Embargoed CC:
WHSpliff.net Press List
WHSpliff.net Press Achieve
UK Campaign groups & resources.
Worldwide campaign groups, resources & forums.
Now I like a good fight:
1) WHSmith was soon sorted, when I got the Daily Mirror involved.
2) Private Eye was well sorted too after an e-mail campaign (hundreds were received) and Ian Hislop phoned me and agreed to take cannabis ads again.
3) After the threats of HIGH COURT action from VW Motors over a T-shirt design - I seem to have put them back in their box.
What, do you reckon to my chances with the global HSBC?
Well, I’ll give it a go – here’s the letter I’ve sent, at the every least it will f*ck-up a few people’s Monday morning!
Mr Graham Underhill
Branch Manager
HSBC
27 Market Square
CREWKERNE
Somerset
TA18 7LL
30th June
Dear Mr Underhill,
Mail Order Services a/c no.
I refer to our telephone conversation on Thursday 27th June and your letter dated the following day, concerning the bank’s decision to close this account.
During our conversation you made claims, such as my business ‘is involved in criminal activities’, later reduced to ‘gives the impression of being involved in criminal activities’, after I had pointed out my business had been given the all clear by the police. Indeed, not just Avon & Somerset police, but hits have been recorded on my website by other forces and central government – and there has been no claim of criminal activities.
Now I am a little confused that having asked you to put ‘everything’ in writing, your letter only says you are closing the account because “the nature of your business is not compatible with our corporate values” – no repeat of the slanderous claims you made on the phone.
Am I to believe that this particular red herring has been dropped? If not, I call upon you to provide evidence of your claim. If you are dropping these claims, I require a formal written retraction and apology. I do not take kindly to such slanderous behaviour that is detrimental to the good name of both my business and myself, and should this matter not be resolved as suggested, I will place the matter in the hands of my solicitors.
Now, as explained, as well as being in the ‘Canna-business’, I am also a campaigner for the legalisation of cannabis, a drug even the government now admits to be far less harmful than tobacco or alcohol. Cannabis is being re-classified soon to a non-arrestable offence, our third largest political party, the Liberal Democrats have adopted legalisation as official policy, and most of the rest of Europe is following or going to full legalisation.
Yet despite the sweeping changes, HSBC has taken a move against a cannabis related business, which only sells totally legal cannabis related products!
I, like many in the campaign, see the ‘normalisation’ of cannabis in society as an important part of the move towards total legalisation, and that means in all sectors of society including business and commerce.
According to government estimates, likely to be somewhat under estimated, there are SIX MILLION regular cannabis smokers in this country, and I am sure a large percentage bank with HSBC. I think they would be interested in hearing from the bank, as a ‘cannabis unfriendly business’, as to the bank’s policy on their personal accounts. I am, via my connections with other campaign resources in the UK and across the globe, in a good position to pass on the bank’s policy. Oh, isn’t the Internet a wonderful method for free minded people to communicate?
In addition there are thousands of cannabis related businesses across the world, and again I am sure many bank with HSBC, and again I am sure they would like to know how they stand with the bank. Via the mailing lists of all the UK wholesalers and the Dutch & Swiss seed-banks, I cannot only pass on your policy to your business customers in the UK, but most around the world too.
So, on behalf of the world-wide cannabis community, and considering your statement, “the nature of your business is not compatible with our corporate values”, I would ask you to spell out the bank’s policy on our community, with particular attention paid to these points:
1) Is it HSBC policy to close all business accounts held by ‘canna-businesses’, and if so is this a UK, European or Worldwide policy?
2) Is it HSBC policy to also close private accounts run by members of the cannabis community, and if so is this a UK, European or Worldwide policy?
3) If it is not HSBC’s intention to close private ‘cannabis’ accounts, can you explain to the customers, in not more than 500 words, why you are prepared to take their custom, whilst trying to restrict them spending their money with ‘canna-businesses’?
4) As a bank founded by Opium traders, and financed by the misery of millions of Chinese addicted to that drug, can you confirm if your ‘corporate values’ are published, in which case I would request a copy, or are they a case of ‘moving-goalposts’ to be used at a whim?
In view of the short notice you have given in relation of closure of the account, I look forward to your most urgent response.
Yours most sincerely,
Mike Cottee
Cannabis Campaigner
Canna-businessman
CC:
Chief Executive, HSBC Plc, London.
UK Cannabis Internet forums
Embargoed CC:
WHSpliff.net Press List
WHSpliff.net Press Achieve
UK Campaign groups & resources.
Worldwide campaign groups, resources & forums.
0
Comments
will an email campaign to this gi t help ? what happened for them to suddenly close your account ?
and YOU caused me some embarressment today in the supermarket..yes YOU ! i'm never at my best on sundays as threy always seem to follow saturday nights. i walkup to the veg counter looking for parsnips for the sunday roast whilst thinking about whspliff and what a great name it is..i cant see any parsnips so ask the guy.."have you got any spliffs as i cant seem to see any" the guy looks at me and says "pardon ? "
"spliffs.....err i mean err ...err..PARSNIPS sorry" . the guy was not at all amused....i never blush..i blushed and left with my little brown bag looking at the floor.......
Morrocan roll blushing
i'll blame it on my kids.....
MR SPLIFFY..........if we all do a little research i'm sure we can find loads of undesirable companies governments etc that this bunch of bankers...polite......deal with .
Unfortuantly i closed my real SBC account some time ago...
And not due to open another with them for a while.
There really is no reason not to change bank accounts on a whim, or on the slightest of insult. Preferably removing all cash in the account as cash and going to open another one. And for some reason it really piss's off the bank.
Last reason i gave was that the chains that secure the biro's in natwest were longer. It does mean i'm the least favorite person of the payroll department though.
Keep up the good work WHspliff. And that was a good letter.
can you get some mr importants email address for us to bombard...
shit....does that mean i've blown my street cred. did i ever have any...
i'm in your town this week shopping with my wife emily so if you see a 6ft 2 bald geezer with a very deep and loud voice and you walk up to him and say are you...and i blush then you'll know .
You never did answer my question in a previous post. I remeber that u replied to one of my posts telling me u lived in Denbigh. I told you that I used to go out with someone called Geoff (Jones - I think, sorry I know its an unusuall name
we had shell fish. never seen or heard of him since.
Loads of suggestions as to how to ‘have a go at them’, but I’ll wait for their reply first.
HSBC wind-up part two:
I’ve spoken with Alun at the Legalise Cannabis Alliance and they are happy for me to stand in elections, so we need a bank account for fund raising locally.
Give you one guess whose application form I’ve got here!
Will they refuse an account to a UK registered political party?
If, so will they close all local LibDem accounts, in view of their policy!
Can’t wait to highlight the bank’s details on campaign leaflets!
It’s play time!
Dear Mr Cottee,
Thank you for your letter dated 30th June, which you copied, to our Chief executive.
I have read your comments and have given the matter further consideration, but have to tell you that we stand by our decision. I trust that you are now in the process of making alternative banking arrangements.
You have asked about HSBC Group’s corporate values and I am enclosing a copy of our statement of Business Principles and Values, which outlines our position.
Please note that the notice we gave you with regard to the closure of your bank account more than complies with the requirements of the Banking code.
Yours sincerely,
Mr Graham Underwood.
Dear Mr Underhill,
Frankly I must say that I am amazed that it has taken you ten days to send a letter that would have taken me less than 10 minutes.
The fact that you have failed to deal with one single point that I raised shows complete disrespect for me as a customer and is in breech of the first item listed in the ‘Business Principles & Values’ leaflet you enclosed.
As my old dad use to say, “anyone can look down on you, as long as they don’t expect you to look up to them.” You sir, should not have been let loose as a bank manager and so I’ll continue to deal with those above you.
Yours most sincerely,
Mike Cottee
HSBC Bank
-v-
FREEDOM & DEMOCRACY
WHSpliff.net is an electronic magazine and printed newsletter campaigning for the legalisation of cannabis – a policy adopted by the Liberal Democrats, and that the two main parties are split on.
Finance for WHSpliff.net is provided by the sale of TOTALLY LEGAL cannabis related products. The only complaint the police have received concerned the sale of cannabis seeds, on the basis that producing these in the UK would be illegal. Once the source (European imports) was confirmed, the police were happy that we were working WITHIN the law.
HSBC Bank thinks different!
After a change of manager at HSBC’s Crewkerne branch, its manager accused the WHSpliff.net of being involved in ‘criminal activities’ and gave notice of closure of the account!
And this, ironically, from a bank founded by Opium traders, and financed by the misery of millions addicted to that drug!
A retraction and full apology or evidence to support this slanderous claim was requested by way of complaint to both the manager and the Chief Executive – and they have refused to respond to this request.
Furthermore, by closing the ‘business’ account, HSBC threatened the future of WHSpliff.net and therefore the founder’s basic human right to earn a living, a right enshrined within the Human Rights Act.
In addition this action is undermining the basis principle of a free press, to be able report and campaign on important issues.
A complaint has been made to the ‘Financial Ombudsman Service’, but in the meantime I would ask customers of HSBC to vote with their feet and close any accounts with the bank.
** WHSpliff.net has made alternative banking arrangements.
"Cannabis is being re-classified soon to a non-arrestable offence"
This isnt really true is it.
Well at the time of writing it was expected to happen any day - OK now its waiting until July next year (although at the same time they are saying the Lambeth scheme will be expanded across London by end of August and October across the rest of England & Wales).
But even if it's the full year, compared with it being arrestable for over 70 years, I think you can still describe the move as happening 'soon'.
It will still be criminal and the police will still be able to give you 2 years in jail for it.
The other drugs that are in class C are still illegal to possess without a prescription but as cannabis wont be prescriped this is a moot point.
I dont really want to get into an argument with anyone over this but I heard David Blunket say;
"this is not decriminalisation"
indeed it's not bong ! but your not gonna get arrested any more.
but they can if they want and some will but it will make the law look a bigger ass than before. its all gone to pot.
Now they have cancelled the overdraft, prior to closure of the account and want it paid off in full now – I figure f*ck them they can wait, so here’s my letter:
I refer to your letter dated 18th July cancelling my overdraft facility, which took me by surprise. As the bank has decided to close this account on the 5th August, I assumed anything was fine until that date.
Now, we have a problem – when I contacted the bank I was offered the overdraft free for a month or for a fee of £50 for a year, with the suggestion of taking the free month and than extending it. This is the choice I took, and duly invested the money into the printing of the new catalogue and increasing my range of cannabis seeds.
A perfectly logical business decision in view of the financial assistance offered, but within days the bank decides they are closing my account – which, of course, is subject of a formal complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman.
Now the problem we have, is my new bank is not interested in talking about offering an overdraft until they have seen the account run for sometime. I don’t have any other source of money, and I am assuming the bank doesn’t want their overdraft paid off with cannabis seeds.
So, perhaps you will be kind enough to suggest how we may be able to get out of this problem, caused by the banks unreasonable actions?
My advice would to go to them offering to pay back the overdraft over a set period, this way at least you look like you are trying to be helpful.
I know that they have been bastardish to you but at the moment its you who has the problem and not them, you need their help.
Once the time has run out for you to pay back the money then they will have the right to take you to court, this jugement will go on your record and will scar your business. I would do everything in my power to avoid this if I were you.
I’ve taken on a lot of big businesses over the years, and when they really piss me off, I’ll do my up most to wind the bastards up, knowing one of my letters landing on their desk is likely to mess-up their whole day – its all a question of karma.
There’s not a hope in hell of this going to court, as I could sort it out from ‘family’ funds – but f*ck them, until my dispute with them & my complaint is dealt with, they’ll just have to wait!
I’ve owed them up to £35,000 UNSECURED on a previous business, I had a good working relationship with that, that was f*cked by their actions not mine.
Sure bankers/wankers like to feel important – but I can assure you they are not, they are people just like you and me, except sometimes the bastards need taking down a peg or two!
I know this game well, its part of my nature!
I certainley see the point, but look at this RESULT:D
They are now suggesting that I can pay a small monthly amount:D
Latest exchange of letters!
Dear Mr Cottee
Thank you for your letter of 31st July, addressed to our Business Credit Services department.
I fully understand your position with regard to repaying the debit balance on your HSBC account.
My suggestion would be that you set up a standing order with your new bank, using the enclosed form, to remit an affordable sum directly into the account on a monthly basis. As soon as your new bank is in a position to provide credit facility this could be used to repay the balance.
If this is acceptable to you, perhaps you could kindly let me know the amount and date we may expect the first repayment.
Yours sincerely,
Mr Graham Underhill
Branch Manager
MY REPLY:
Dear Mr Underhill,
You claimed my business ‘is involved in criminal activities’, you refuse to retract that claim and you expect me to have further dealings with you?
Sorry, no can do!
My suggestion is that you refer the matter to a more mature member of staff.
I’ll await to hear further.
Yours most sincerely,
Mike Cottee
Prospective Parliamentary Candidate
Legalise Cannabis Alliance (Somerset)
Personally, I see it as a very important battle; it appears all high street banks and others, have and continue to close cannabis related business accounts, which is something I've found out after it happened to me!
Now, most such businesses are trading without being able to disclose the true nature of their business, as indeed I have been forced to do now, until I obtain confirmation from any bank that will take such accounts. With this in mind, I'll be writting to the Chief Executive of each asking for their policy on this.
Now, it is installed in the Human Rights Act, the right to earn a [legal] living, but if you can't open a business account, you can't!
Question is; Is that right?
In addition, with regards to HSBC, and Mr Underwood in particular - I was accused of being involved in 'criminal activities’!
I've only been arrested once in my life, in support of the Dutch Experience Cafe, and only for hemp paper, so the case was dropped.
Now I am sorry, but I can't take that sitting down - you & me can't go around accusing people like that.
Question is; Is that right?
:cool:
Dont stop.
I'll try not too!
Anyway, latest exchanges with the wankers (or do I mean bankers, no, wankers), as you will see I don't suffer fools lightly
12/8/02
Dear Mr Cottee
Business Account
Thank you for your recent letter.
As you are aware the account at this branch cannot be closed until the borrowing is repaid. However, because the account activity will now consist of repayment credits from you new bankers, there should be no need for ‘further dealings’ unless repayments are no longer made and a debit dormant position arises.
I am afraid it is not workable for your correspondence to be dealt with by a manager at another branch.
Yours sincerely
Mr Graham Underhill.
20/8/02
Dear Mr Underhill,
I refer to yours of the 12th August.
1 – Looks like you will be holding the account open for a long time!
2 – You are jumping to assumptions AGAIN, did I agree to (a) repayments or (b) credits from my new bankers?
3 – Looking forward to finding out what a ‘debit dormant position’ is!
4 – When I requested to move my account earlier this year to Taunton branch, I was told by a manager there; “No need, it’s all central now. You can deal with any manager at any branch, anytime.” So, who’s talking bollocks you or him?
I felt my last letter made it clear, for even a 5-year-old to understand, I am not dealing with you or your branch further. Which bit didn’t you get?
Yours most sincerely,
Mike Cottee
PS:
We live in a society that demands that individuals and businesses have a bank account.
Then the banks start dictating how, when, where and why we spend our money and conduct our business.
My grandparents fought a war against people like that!
- Posted on an American Internet Forum, on a Boycott HSBC Bank thread - the message is spreading!
Duffy