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U.S. invasion of Iraq?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat
    "I (insert name), having been appointed a (insert rank) in the U.S. Army under the conditions indicated in this document, do accept such appointment and do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter, so help me God."

    Integral to that concept is supporting, or at least not undermining, the orders and policies of those appointed above me.

    I'm still not sure how that applies here, when we are talking about Israeli Forces :confused:

    Like I said you don't have a problem on other, sometimes more US relevant issues...
    Brits are supposed to be masters of understanding what hasn't been said. I suggest applying the skill to my statements. Keep in mind that Aladdin is an idiot (in other words, he has not reached a valid conclusion). Might also consider that I could have posted a number of different links related to Jenin and it not being a massacre. I chose the one I posted.

    To be honest what you opinion is, isn't as important to me. I think I have an idea anyway, based on previous assertions that "getting the job done" is the most important aspect of warfare.

    I was/am more interested in your refusal to commit on this subject, whilst having no similar compulsion on other subject (you've even been very vocal previously on this issue) - unless you are hinting that US is somehow involved. I doubt that, because I would have expected some word to get out. Not ruling it out tho'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat
    "I (insert name), having been appointed a (insert rank) in the U.S. Army under the conditions indicated in this document, do accept such appointment and do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter, so help me God."

    Integral to that concept is supporting, or at least not undermining, the orders and policies of those appointed above me.

    Brits are supposed to be masters of understanding what hasn't been said. I suggest applying the skill to my statements. Keep in mind that Aladdin is an idiot (in other words, he has not reached a valid conclusion). Might also consider that I could have posted a number of different links related to Jenin and it not being a massacre. I chose the one I posted.

    You, sir, are a ponce of the highest order. You make less and less sense with each post and if you had any sense (or brains) would quit this subject now. The above is absolutely irrelevant to your personal opinion on foreign armies committing alleged crimes or abuses against civilians. Even if the US Army had instructed the Israelis to fire on ambulance crews (which of course is the biggest load of bollocks the world has ever seen) you would be entitled to an opinion; you certainly haven't shown any restrain on other subjects. Your earlier post joking about me aspiring to be a landlord shows you don't even have a clue what is being discussed here- my concern was about the lives that were lost and not about the building. The fact that this has to be explained to you says it all really.

    Rather than trying to hide behind pathetic excuses for not publicly expressing your opinions you should either come clean and admit what you think or quit this discussion. Or perhaps you are in self-denial about your nature?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually, Aladdin, it seems to me that you are in denial about your ability to follow any sort of logical thought (actually your inability) and about having a CLUE as to what is actually happening in the world. Once again, I'll ask the question you have been ignoring...

    When are you going to actually DO anything?


    MOK,

    You are generally a sensible poster, so I will explain a bit. US Army Officers are restricted in that they are honor and regulation bound to not make specific comments that could be construed as opposed or detrimental to US policy. Maybe no one has noticed, but the Israelis are US allies. Just as I will not make any negative comments about current British foreign policies or military forces (historical are fair game, however), I will not make such comments in regards to the Israelis. The Palestinians, on the other hand, are terrorists, long identified as such by the US government. I'm free to voice my opinion about them (since I don't support them). When it comes to areas that the US Government has a stated policy, it is worthwhile to pay attention to what isn't said by people in my situation, as much as what is said.

    By the way, the same situation applies to members of Her Majesty's services and British policy.

    Aladdin looks for comments slagging Israel. What he should look for is the lack of comments defending Israel. Now think about my choice of link. What does it tell you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin


    You, sir, are a ponce of the highest order.

    Oh, one more thing.

    You are a clueless twit and child with no concept of reality or what happens in the world at large. Grow up, visit some of the rest of the world, learn a few languages, then talk to me. Btw, when will you stop killing?

    Pom rue ee hia, lai mai kit.

    Ich verstehe ein kinder ist unwissend. Du bist dumm.

    Meih nyei domh-mienh corc yiem nyae?

    G'o^-i ma de.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    You, sir, are a ponce of the highest order.
    Originally posted by Greenhat
    Pom rue ee hia, lai mai kit.

    Ich verstehe ein kinder ist unwissend. Du bist dumm.

    Meih nyei domh-mienh corc yiem nyae?

    G'o^-i ma de.

    Was your intention there to prove Aladdin's point? Or are you so wrapped up in yourself that you didn't even realise that that makes you sound even more like a ponce?

    Wow - you can talk a little bit in a foreign language. You want a medal for it? You think it somehow makes your arguments more valid? Your opinions more right?

    Oh no, I forgot. You took an oath which, you claim, prevents you from expressing an opinion contrary to that of your masters. And Thanatos calls us sheeple? ROTFLMFAO!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Vox populi, vox Dei




    Was your intention there to prove Aladdin's point? Or are you so wrapped up in yourself that you didn't even realise that that makes you sound even more like a ponce?

    Wow - you can talk a little bit in a foreign language. You want a medal for it? You think it somehow makes your arguments more valid? Your opinions more right?

    Oh no, I forgot. You took an oath which, you claim, prevents you from expressing an opinion contrary to that of your masters. And Thanatos calls us sheeple? ROTFLMFAO!

    Do you really think I give a shit what you think?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat


    Do you really think I give a shit what you think?

    Clearly, or you wouldn't be getting so frustrated.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://www.military.com/NewsContent?file=FL_iraq_080602

    Geting back to the subject of the post...take note of the paragraph second from bottom...says it all...and what to expect and soon.:eek:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Vox populi, vox Dei


    Clearly, or you wouldn't be getting so frustrated.

    frustrated?

    Now I'm LMAO....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat

    The Palestinians, on the other hand, are terrorists

    I forgot that Palestinian paramedics carry an AK47 in their pants, and all those children killed in last week’s apartment block attack were dangerous terrorists. I beg your pardon for not understanding the situation. Now I see that all Palestinians are worthless terrorists and should be exterminated.



    … long identified as such by the US government. I'm free to voice my opinion about them (since I don't support them). When it comes to areas that the US Government has a stated policy, it is worthwhile to pay attention to what isn't said by people in my situation, as much as what is said.

    As me and a few others have pointed out before, you have expressed your opinions in many occasions here before without fear of reprisals from your superiors. Besides, are you really trying to make us believe that the US Army would want to track down a US army officer because they posted a critical comment of a foreign nation in a British teenage message board? And how would they find you? Would they pull out of Afghanistan and devote all their resources to find the traitor who said “It was wrong for the Israelis to attack ambulance crews trying to assist the wounded”? Give me a fucking break.


    Once again, I'll ask the question you have been ignoring... When are you going to actually DO anything?

    Coming from the man who has dodged more questions than Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton put together, that is rather breathtaking.
    This, as you may have noticed, is a message board. People come here to voice their opinions about a variety of subjects. They are not expected to do something that is out of their hands in order to be able to voice their opinions. Perhaps you think being in the Army gives you more authority to talk about these things? Don’t make me laugh. :rolleyes:


    Oh, one more thing.

    You are a clueless twit and child with no concept of reality or what happens in the world at large. Grow up, visit some of the rest of the world, learn a few languages, then talk to me. Btw, when will you stop killing?

    Pom rue ee hia, lai mai kit.

    Ich verstehe ein kinder ist unwissend. Du bist dumm.

    Meih nyei domh-mienh corc yiem nyae?

    G'o^-i ma de.

    This really merits no reply. We all know what concept of reality people like you have of the world.
    You might find that I’ve seen a lot of the world, perhaps even more than you. Unless of course you are including US Army posts abroad where you only get out of the base to roam the local bars and premises of dubious reputation. I'm sure that makes you a world authority on politics.

    Asi que callate la boca ya, payaso, que estas haciendo el ridiculo mas espantoso.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Vox populi, vox Dei


    Oh no, I forgot. You took an oath which, you claim, prevents you from expressing an opinion contrary to that of your masters.

    Vox (and others), it is like that everywhere. People in the military or other forms of professions of which the country is represented, can't publicly give out opinions against the official statement of the country.
    I wouldn't/hadn't expected Greenhat to do so, as i can't see why he should jeapordize his credibility within his field, just to satisfy people of this site.

    I think that most of us were aware of the fact that Greenhat does work for the American Military and is outstationed in Thailand. So this shouldn't come as a big surprise actually.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin


    As me and a few others have pointed out before, you have expressed your opinions in many occasions here before without fear of reprisals from your superiors. Besides, are you really trying to make us believe that the US Army would want to track down a US army officer because they posted a critical comment of a foreign nation in a British teenage message board? And how would they find you? Would they pull out of Afghanistan and devote all their resources to find the traitor who said “It was wrong for the Israelis should have not attacked ambulance crews trying to assist the wounded”? Give me a fucking break.

    Some people have principles, and want to back their own morals a 100%. And it's not a matter about getting "caught" or not, more about being true and honest to ones commitments.

    Would you give him more credibility than now, if you knew he was posting something of which he shouldn't? Many would probably just take that as another point to diss.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think they want to make sure he doesn't bomb the U.S, so, logical conclusion for the U.S, get rid of him!
    I don't think they want to take any chances after 9-11-01, so everyones a threat to them. It's probablly best to be safe than sorry, but they do need proof, but Sadam should let the weapons inspectors in, its just aggrevating the most powerful nation on Earth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper


    Vox (and others), it is like that everywhere. People in the military or other forms of professions of which the country is represented, can't publicly give out opinions against the official statement of the country.
    I wouldn't/hadn't expected Greenhat to do so, as i can't see why he should jeapordize his credibility within his field, just to satisfy people of this site.

    I think that most of us were aware of the fact that Greenhat does work for the American Military and is outstationed in Thailand. So this shouldn't come as a big surprise actually.

    I'm so glad you mention that Jacqueline.

    Below is an extract from a News story in March:

    "Israel has intensified its fierce offensive against the Palestinians, with dozens of tanks entering one West Bank city and F-16 fighter jets attacking another.

    Tanks poured into Tulkarm early on Thursday as helicopters fired missiles, killing one Palestinian and injuring three others; the F-16s bombed a police headquarters in Bethlehem.

    The attacks follow unusually strong criticism of Israel by US Secretary of State Colin Powell, who said "declaring war" on Palestinians did not lead anywhere. "If you declare war on the Palestinians and think you can solve the problem by seeing how many Palestinians can be killed - I don't know that leads us anywhere." [Colin Powell]


    The full story can be found

    here

    Soooo, Mr Greenhat, I'm sure you can see the official US policy on this news article. Care to comment? :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin

    This really merits no reply. We all know what concept of reality people like you have of the world.
    You might find that I’ve seen a lot of the world, perhaps even more than you. Unless of course you are including US Army posts abroad where you only get out of the base to roam the local bars and premises of dubious reputation. I'm sure that makes you a world authority on politics.

    Asi que callate la boca ya, payaso, que estas haciendo el ridiculo mas espantoso.

    Haven't been many military posts where I've been. And Colin Powell is not in the Chain of Command. He is allowed to express his opinion in his current job. His opinion is not policy.

    Le introducire a los altavoces espanoles en Guatamala. Aliste para mojar sus pantalones? Gozan de eso con "Le Punta".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem here is, that Powell and Bush are known to have some disagreements in this subject.
    Plus, it's an article from early march... Maybe the opinions have changed since then?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What I was trying to point out is that the US does not approve of every single action committed by the Israelis. Although clearly not enough by everybody else's standards, the US does condemn some of Israel's actions. This surely would give Greenhat some licence to speak his mind? No one was asking he demands the destruction of Israel. Just to comment on something that anyone with an ounce of decency would view as wrong.

    Can we just leave it at this? We're not going to agree on anything and we have already diverted from the starting topic for long enough.

    So Diesel, back to your post. What is the public opinion in the US about the possible attack? In Britain Blair is rapidly becoming isolated as most people are against an attack.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    What is the public opinion in the US about the possible attack? In Britain Blair is rapidly becoming isolated as most people are against an attack.

    Support is pretty high here for an attack. I would say a majority support it, it's only the scope of the attack that is being debated.

    Of course, this has to be taken with a grain of salt, the average idiot has no idea why we are doing this other than what he's gleaned from ten Minutes reading USA Today on the toilet.... .:rolleyes:

    According to an article I read in the Washington Post today, they're already running a wargame against a "Country X" in the Calif/Nevada desert.

    I just hope they don't fuck it up. GO over there, get it done, then come home....if we can. This thing could very well blow up in our faces and we'd have to keep troops there for years. :(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the view here is that the attack is not sanctioned by the UN, and many doubt the legality of the operation and believe that Blair has become little more than Bush's poodle. Most are not too happy about the British involvement in the operation.

    With regard to the military side of it, I don't think Iraq would present a bigger problem than in 1991. They have not had any spares for their military hardware in 11 years, other than what they have been able to build themselves. Obviously no additions or replacements for the tanks and aircraft they lost. Arguably the biggest risk is that Saddam, thinking that this time he won't escape, says 'the hell with it' and unleashes whatever chemical/biological arsenal he has.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    With regard to the military side of it, I don't think Iraq would present a bigger problem than in 1991. They have not had any spares for their military hardware in 11 years, other than what they have been able to build themselves. Obviously no additions or replacements for the tanks and aircraft they lost. Arguably the biggest risk is that Saddam, thinking that this time he won't escape, says 'the hell with it' and unleashes whatever chemical/biological arsenal he has.

    Oh, I wasn't referring to that. I don't think they will be much of a military threat at all...I was referring to the stability problems that will faced after Saddam's deposal. Say what you will about the man, he runs that country with an iron fist and because of that (and the no-fly zones) he has been able to keep the Kurds, opposed tribal leaders, and Sunni majority (or is it Sh'ite...I don't remember) under control. By use of ruthless means, of course.

    Whoever the US puts in there afterward won't be able to use methods this extreme. Which presents a bit of a stability problem. The Kurd's, for one, want their own country. Who's to say they won't try to take it for themselves?
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