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Men and masculinity

This discussion was created from comments split from: Let's Talk About Men! - The Mix.

Comments

  • MorbidNomadMorbidNomad Posts: 2 Newbie
    edited September 2020
    Just look at how many men commit violent crimes vs women. Prostitution, porn, objectification, and much more is all invented by men, but no one takes sexual violence seriously. If you think I'm wrong then I'm sorry

    mod edit: post has been heavily edited (see mod message below)

    The mod team has had a pretty lengthy discussion about this post... :)

    We want to allow space for this conversation to happen. The act of unity showed by you guys in responding to this and disputing the post is genuinely powerful. It shows a real strength of community that you guys are willing to thoroughly dispute and dismantle a point of view you don't agree with, and there's so much value in that happening in an open setting.

    And - who knows - this might also lead @MorbidNomad to change their perspective. It's important for us to allow people space to express questionable views and grow. Especially when this perspective may potentially be fuelled by very real and valid personal experiences.

    That said, we're also about protecting the safety of this space. And how you all feel and how this might impact someone emotionally is our highest priority. Points of view (however reprehensible we might think they are) are okay, but anything that makes the community feel unsafe or uninclusive is not okay.

    To try and strike the best balance, we've edited the main post (and quotes of it) to remove the parts that felt most problematic and pointed. Our hope is that this preserves the conversation as a whole (and your amazing responses) but avoids the thread making people feel unsafe or unwelcome. This is a safe, inclusive space first and foremost. :)

    If you want to talk this through, drop @The Mix a PM or report the post.
    Post edited by JustV on
  • LaineLaine Deactivated Posts: 2,762 Boards Guru
    I get where you're coming from and these words sadly could be used to describe some men. 
    I don't think personally however I would paint them all with the same brush it's not really fair. :)

    I've had friends of both sexes and they are great. I've had some girl friends who weren't really nice so I definitely think it's down to the individual more. 

    Men experience domestic violence too, a shocking thing that really shouldn't happen to anyone ❤️

    Masculinity does have some issues especially for men, who feel they have to be strong, emotionless etc it's unfortunate.

    We have some noticeable males around the mix community who are just fab. Users and some mods and staff members who give their time to support others. At the end of the day I'm sure we're all here for same reason when you strip it down. To support and get support :)


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  • Anch0r33Anch0r33 Posts: 1,201 Wise Owl
    As a woman, this post really does disgust me. I understand where your view point is coming from, and I also understand that you may have had negative experiences with men. 

    This does not prove true for all men though. As many above me have previously stated, men have contributed much to this world. It is unfair to make sweeping statements about a certain gender. I truly believe if a post like this was made about women that it would receive an uproar all the same. 

    You want to talk about sexual violence, lets start by talking about how many men do not report sexual violence as they are less likely to be believed. I know more men that have opened up to me about sexual abuse than women and that is a fact. This has a devastating impact on mens mental health. 

    Lets talk about how men are more likely to commit suicide because they are less likely to speak up about issues due to this toxic situation. Why should men fear speaking up? Women mock men for speaking up, women cry rape when it isn't true... why should men suffer because women are more likely to be believed??

     Let's take a look at some statistics - 
    Males are more likely to be victims of a personal crime than females. 
    In 2017/18, 7.9% of females reported experiencing domestic abuse in the last year, compared to 4.2% of males.
    There were 613 homicide victims in 2016/17 excluding the Hillsborough disaster, of which, 71% were male and 29% were female. 
     males were significantly more likely to be a victim of violence (2.1%) and robbery (0.3%) than females (1.3% and 0.2%, respectively)
    There was a significantly smaller proportion of females who were a victim of a violent crime in 2016/17 than males (2.1% of males and 1.3% of females). There was a higher proportion of males reporting prevalence of violence from a stranger (1.3%) compared to females (0.4% from a stranger)1
     There was a significantly greater proportion of male victims of all violence in 2016/17 in every age group except 55 to 64 where there were more female victims (but no significant difference).
    In 2017/18, 4.4% of children aged 10 to 15 overall were a victim of violent crime. As with non-violent personal crime, a significantly higher proportion of male children (5.8%) were a victim than female children (3.0%). 
    Domestic abuse in both males and females has significantly decreased since 2004/05
    Of those who were victims of partner abuse in 2017/18, more male victims reported physical injuries overall (31.8%) compared with 22.7% of females

    I could go on but I'll let anyone who is interested read the rest of it here... on the official government page... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/759770/women-criminal-justice-system-2017..pdf

    And yes, there is categories where the statistics go against men, but it is also true that you made a sweeping statement against men, and I don't know about anyone else on here but I don't find sweeping statements very welcome here. 

    If you have had personal issues with men, please do share them so we can support you, but please, please, please do not make sweeping statements in a safe space for ALL genders. I for one support all humans no matter who they are or what they identify as and believe this is a very inclusive space that doens't need to be ruined by sweeping statements. 
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  • JustVJustV Community Manager Posts: 5,285 Part of The Furniture
    edited September 2020
    Mod update below (spoilered so we don't intrude too much!) (reply here if you like)

    The mod team has had a pretty lengthy discussion about this post... :)

    We want to allow space for this conversation to happen. The act of unity showed by you guys in responding to this and disputing the post is genuinely powerful. It shows a real strength of community that you guys are willing to thoroughly dispute and dismantle a point of view you don't agree with, and there's so much value in that happening in an open setting.

    And - who knows - this might also lead @MorbidNomad to change their perspective. It's important for us to allow people space to express questionable views and grow. Especially when this perspective may potentially be fuelled by very real and valid personal experiences.

    That said, we're also about protecting the safety of this space. And how you all feel and how this might impact someone emotionally is our highest priority. Points of view (however reprehensible we might think they are) are okay, but anything that makes the community feel unsafe or uninclusive is not okay.

    To try and strike the best balance, we've edited the main post (and quotes of it) to remove the parts that felt most problematic and pointed. Our hope is that this preserves the conversation as a whole (and your amazing responses) but avoids the thread making people feel unsafe or unwelcome. This is a safe, inclusive space first and foremost. :)

    If you want to talk this through, drop @The Mix a PM or report the post.
    Post edited by JustV on
    All behaviour is a need trying to be met.
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    You want to address and fix some of the issues related to machismo? 
    Misandrist comments writing off half the population are probably not the way to do it.
    Weekender Offender 
  • ThatFelixGuyThatFelixGuy Posts: 242 Trailblazer
    Bit late to this conversation, but I am upset a lot of you are being incredibly hateful towards men.

    I am a bit different to most guys, I like men, I am not 'physical' and people call me 'soft and gentle', yet I have seen Women all over the internet say men need to day, men need therapy etc.

    It is really disgusting. Feminism is EQUALITY of men, not disguised misandry.
    "Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves." - Bruce Lee
  • Past UserPast User Posts: 1,997 Extreme Poster
    @ThatFelixGuy

     I am upset a lot of you are being incredibly hateful towards men.
    Who do you mean by “a lot of you” ? Only OP was hateful towards men?
  • Anch0r33Anch0r33 Posts: 1,201 Wise Owl
    @ThatFelixGuy what do you mean a lot of us? The OP posted something that we all disagree with and it's been dealt with. 

    OP also hasn't been active once since posting so anything on here now is really a lost cause. 

    At the time we all felt very strongly against the original post and as you can see from my comment (and others) we defended men as a group. 

    Check out all the comments again and see the SUPPORT in the thread 
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  • ThatFelixGuyThatFelixGuy Posts: 242 Trailblazer
    I misworded :(
    "Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves." - Bruce Lee
  • ThatFelixGuyThatFelixGuy Posts: 242 Trailblazer
    That is my bad
    "Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves." - Bruce Lee
  • Anch0r33Anch0r33 Posts: 1,201 Wise Owl
    No worries! Just wanted to make sure you didn't think we were all bad!
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  • tkdogtkdog Posts: 281 The Mix Regular
    edited May 2021
    I know OP is not really active so this is more just a general comment on these sorts of things.

    I know there are seperatism movements and all
    And women hurt by things men but yeah generally speaking these sweeping statements against men especially "all men" do really seem too far and also wrong. But I know of Women who say the world would be better if there were no Men etc especially after all the things that happened lately on streets at night. I dunno ya know I know differences cause problems but I wouldn't want one sex to be gone just because of that and what they bring. generally though we are all just people and individuals. I think there are systematic issues in the world but hate doesn't solve it. A lot of violence also is between men too. But perhaps the violence is a result and expreession of unresolved issues, not that it absolves responsibility of the user.

    There are certainly good arguments against porn availability especially the more extreme sort that goes around though I can't say I would be for banning it for those old enough but yeah there are people with significant addictions to it or who develop negative notions to Women or feminine presenting people as a result and see them as purely objects to use. I know some Women even think that almost all hetero men talk about Women as only objects to be used behind their backs in "guy talk" and sex talk. I dont think that is totally true though i think lad talk can be a problem and all the fragile masculinity stuff.

    As for prositution too personally I'm not pro for it since it is kinda just selling your body unless people are very desperate although to some extent people still have the choice to do it and not so say some people dont enjoy it maybe but overall I think people need support to do things that are more meaningful to them. As well as the risk of violence.
  • jazzoverjazzover Posts: 2 Newbie
    Just look at how many men commit violent crimes vs women. Prostitution, porn, objectification, and much more is all invented by men, but no one takes sexual violence seriously. If you think wrong then I'm sorry
    mod edit: post has been heavily edited (see mod message below)
    Just look at how many men commit violent crimes vs women. Prostitution, porn, objectification, and much more is all invented by men, but no one takes sexual violence seriously. If you think I'm wrong then I'm sorry
    mod edit: post has been heavily edited (see mod message below)

    there are many other reasons too
  • maryam852maryam852 Posts: 187 Helping Hand
    I think that it is important to recognise that it not an individual male but rather the systematic sexism is engrained in society that allows sexual violence to occur. I appreciate that it is a touching topic and @MorbidNomad has a right to feel passionately about it but there is a risk of generalising this problem. I think something that is rarely spoken about when it comes to sexual violence is that done to men, by either men or women. However, even when considering the historic roots of prostitution, pornography and sexual violence as a whole, there are many overlapping factors (patriarchy of course, religious factors). It is never right to generalise statements or condone violence against anyone because of who they are.
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