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The National ID Card

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Do you think everyone should have one?

Down to a personal level, it can make our life easier. Instead of searching for an identification proof like driving license (some people dont drive), electric bills, bank statements, etc, everyone can have a standard, nationally recognised ID card.

Up to national level, it helps to keep national security. Government can keep track of identities of all citizens. Suspected terrorists could be identified. Also it would make those trying to make false claim on social benefits harder. Another good function of a national ID card is getting rid of illegal immigrants. As they do not have ID cards, it is easy to prove that they are not legally entitied to live in the country so the police can prosecute them.

National ID cards are used in many other countries and there is no major problem with it. Some people said the idea is against human right but I suppose the police would only ask to show the ID if they believe there is a reason to.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It all depends on the reason behind it all. If it is to make life easier for us, to give us an easily available form of ID instead of the passport or driving licence (as you suggest), then fair enough.

    But there is another level that you can take it to. National security is less of an issue because the system would never be 100% secure, and with a transient immigrant population, people will be lost from records.

    The other option is for it to be used to keep control on us. If, for example, we had to produce an ID card on request by (e.g.) a police officer then there are bigger issues at stake: those being the individual's right to privacy and freedom (civil liberties), and the state's responsibility to respect that privacy: innocent until proven guilty. The danger is that the UK turns into a "police state".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J:
    <STRONG>Can you imagine the government doing it because it would make life easier for us?

    <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>
    Precisely <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't really mind, I don't think it would lead to a police state, just because its there doesn't mean the govt will abuse it, we can easily resist that.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>Don't really mind, I don't think it would lead to a police state, just because its there doesn't mean the govt will abuse it, we can easily resist that.....</STRONG>

    You have more faith in your Govt than I do <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> and more than I expected, if anything I thought you'd be totally opposed. I have to admit that you have surprised me.

    Can anyone explain the benefit of such a system?

    We all know that we need a drving licence and bank statement as ID, and 99% of us will have forms of ID already if they are required. As for national security and fraud - surely fake ID will be a booming industry...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was assuming there was some higher purpose that was massively useful, something to do with crime I'd imagine, confiscate the ID card of those on bail/open prison/community service/parol etc?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well in Denmark every registered person gets a card with the size of creditcard a couple of months after birth. It is actually a medical card.

    Name, ID number, address, name of doctor is written on it.

    It is used every time someone needs a legitimation, for example for: hospitals and doctors (the main reason of the card actually), public services (like the library) and clubs.

    Is it that kind of ID card you are talking about, or is it something completely different? <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its not a question of the motive when the ID card is brought into effect, its the possible use's it would have 100 years from now.
    Can you garuantee the gov. then wil be as liberal (I cannot believe i'm saying this) as the one we have now?
    Same with facial recognition in airports.
    At the moment its only being used to detect terrorists (as long as they don't wear eyeglass's, tilt their heads etc etc), but it could be used to track the movements of every citizen through every airport.

    Its easier to give power to the gov. than it is to take it away. And the gov you give power to will prolly not be the one that we need to take it back from.

    Back on topic:
    The only way i'd tolerate an ID card is if no person has the right to veiw / scan the card without my consent, or going to court.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What is actually wrong with the govt knowing the wearabouts and identities of its own citizens?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    as far as i can see the only people who will have a problem with the ID card is those who dont want their where abouts or business known, essentially those who have something to hide.
    Technicaly this includes everyone, because i dont know anyone who has absolutely
    nothing to hide.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have to say I have never been able to understand the opposition to ID cards in Britain. ID cards are great! Remember how every time you open a bank account, register in a video shop, become member of endless organisations, , buy a mobile phone, and in countless other occasions, you have to bring with you 1 valid photo ID card, 1 utility bill and 1 credit card statement. With ID cards everything is sorted. You can walk on impulse anywhere and arrange everything from a loan to a new car, to a club membership. Not to mention proof of ID for over-21 bars.

    ID cards make everything simple, and contrary to people's assumptions here, there is no big-brother Police in the rest of Europe checking people's ID cards for no reason and taking people away to Siberia. I really can't see what the big deal is <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>What is actually wrong with the govt knowing the wearabouts and identities of its own citizens?</STRONG>

    Prime error: The citizens do not belong to the government, the government belongs to the citizens, or so it should be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MacKenZie:
    <STRONG>

    Prime error: The citizens do not belong to the government, the government belongs to the citizens, or so it should be.</STRONG>

    CAREFUL, Mac! They might confuse you with ME! <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>What is actually wrong with the govt knowing the wearabouts and identities of its own citizens?</STRONG>

    Why do they need to?

    Unless you are suggesting that this will let us know where our MPs are and who they are meeting..?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's a good idea - everyone would have a proof of age card, and it would certainly make loads of things easier. Most people carry around their National Insurance card, how is this different?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by openup:
    <STRONG>I think it's a good idea - everyone would have a proof of age card, and it would certainly make loads of things easier. Most people carry around their National Insurance card, how is this different?</STRONG>

    Something to do with the words written on the NI card, namely;

    This is not proof of identity?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Posted by Nice Kick:
    Up to national level, it helps to keep national security. Government can keep track of identities of all citizens.

    The United States already has a way of keeping track of us. Its called the Social Security system. You know, everyone is assigned a number and that is your national identification. Sounds a bit like prison doesn't it? Why add a mug shot to it? Granted there are flaws in the system, ie, identity theft and fraud, but when it boils down to it, most of the time it is your responsibilty, or lack thereof, that causes these problems. Don't just throw papers and stuff with your ssn all over it in the trash, burn it or shred it. Then it won't happen. Don't put your ssn on your checks, don't put it on your driver's license. There are many ways to be preventive, not stupid.

    Its just another way for the government to get too involved in your life and it's a bad idea. How can you ask what is so bad about the government knowing you are 24/7? If they would get off their lard asses and actually use their heads and the angencies they coordinate to prevent illegal aliens, and even give the military more say in how it handles patrols on our seas and borders, you wouldn't need to ask this question, and there certainly wouldn't be a problem with terrorism. These damn liberals that think they can make everything go away with a treaty and a handshake have their heads up their asses. Its bad enough they can track your every move with GP systems, why add more to their motives. They don't need to know when I go out in my car to go shopping, they don't need to know when I buy something when I'm shopping and have to show proof of identification for my checks I write out. Its a bad idea and the world would become a police state if they did issue such a thing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Thanatos...AGAIN:
    <STRONG>

    CAREFUL, Mac! They might confuse you with ME! <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

    Heh... <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> This does seem to be a more and more frequent occurrence, doesn't it? <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Erm....I'm astounded that you all think there would be a "big brother" police state.

    You've got to think about it like this, at the end of the day we're all insignificant cogs in a machine, and you're seriously over flattering yourselves if you think the government has nothing better to do all day than keep tabs on people.
    Sheesh

    <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At school in the UK everyone has been given Citezen Cards, for some reason unknown to myself. I remember at the time it came as a bit of a shock because i had no idea what they were doing, and we were just told to keep them on us. I read something in the newspapers about parents complaining because they had been given no warning etc.

    There pointless anyway though, because so many kids have them now shops refuse them because they say there's such a high risk of forgeries, and if you say you were given them through school they just laugh because they havent been told of this. So we've been given ID no one accepts, because no one was told we were getting them, and no one has ever heard of them.
    Cheers guys real intelligent.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere:
    <STRONG>Erm....I'm astounded that you all think there would be a "big brother" police state.

    You've got to think about it like this, at the end of the day we're all insignificant cogs in a machine, and you're seriously over flattering yourselves if you think the government has nothing better to do all day than keep tabs on people.
    Sheesh

    <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

    True, true... but one of the main difficulties a modern Western government would face in implementing a "Big Brother" state is that most people have that very concept in their heads. That is, George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four was and is a preventative measure against its own predictions coming true.

    You should also bear in mind that humans have a tendency to do things just because they can... and justify it as 'contingency planning' or similar.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Whowhere:
    <STRONG>Erm....I'm astounded that you all think there would be a "big brother" police state.

    You've got to think about it like this, at the end of the day we're all insignificant cogs in a machine, and you're seriously over flattering yourselves if you think the government has nothing better to do all day than keep tabs on people.

    Sheesh

    <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

    Hello? Did you not read what any of us had to say?

    We aren't flattering ourselves, we speak the truth. The social security system is so far the government's way of keeping track of us. For taxes, for driver's licenses, for purchases we make, and for the money we make.

    "Social Security numbers were grouped by the first three digits of the number (called the area number) and assigned geographically starting in the northeast and moving across the country to the northwest. But if you look closely at the distribution pattern you will see an apparent anomaly. The lowest area numbers are assigned to New Hampshire, rather than to Maine, even though Maine in the most northeasterly of the states."

    It was originally formed so that we could get medical benefits when we retire. But now its one big tracking system for the above stated things.

    Mainly its a way for the government to steal our hard earned money, and screw us out of our pension when we retire.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    I have to say I have never been able to understand the opposition to ID cards in Britain. ID cards are great! Remember how every time you open a bank account, register in a video shop, become member of endless organisations, , buy a mobile phone, and in countless other occasions, you have to bring with you 1 valid photo ID card, 1 utility bill and 1 credit card statement. With ID cards everything is sorted. You can walk on impulse anywhere and arrange everything from a loan to a new car, to a club membership. Not to mention proof of ID for over-21 bars.

    ID cards make everything simple, and contrary to people's assumptions here, there is no big-brother Police in the rest of Europe checking people's ID cards for no reason and taking people away to Siberia. I really can't see what the big deal is <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

    I totally agree, although I am English, I live & work in Belgium, & have had an ID Card since I came here 3 years ago. All I can say, is, although Belgium may not be the most efficiently run country in the EU, & being completely corrupt to its roots, it is not a "Big Brother Police State". You do not get stopped & searched all the time & having an official state produced ID, makes life very easy here. Like someone else said the only people who would disagree are the people whe either have something to hide, or want to hide something. They are the reason we should have an ID card system !
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Prime error: The citizens do not belong to the government, the government belongs to the citizens, or so it should be.

    Whoops, schoolboy error there....... :(

    An ID card would only be bad if it were misused but because it is introduced it does not mean it will be misusec, they are sperate issues.....
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