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Alcohol and Weed.

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
I saw someone say that basically they feel smoking weed is far better than drinking alcohol because they'd rather be chilled out than annoying and they feel that ultimately weed is the better choice because alcohol could kill someone.

That's like saying people who smoke weed are way better than people who drink alcohol and that's not something I agree with. I don't think it's at all about what someone does - the question is why does someone do what they do?

I know I'd always, without a doubt, choose alcohol over anything else and that's a choice I'd make whether people like it or not. I don't think it's fair for anyone to make the assumption that drinking just causes you to become annoying and could ultimately kill you - it could be much more than it seems and although I don't know much about weed, I highly doubt it's the safest thing in the world.

What do you guys think?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    My point is, everything in moderation. If you drink loads, or do loads of drugs don't be surprised when you fuck your body and mind up.

    Valid point but possibly much more complicated sometimes which I think is worth not forgetting.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,156 Skive's The Limit
    Whowhere wrote: »
    people who have smoked so much weed it has addled their brains and they are unable to string a sentence together, they're prone to violence and they're basically just a shell of a person.

    Cannabis neither 'addles' you brain, makes you prone to violence, or makes you a 'shell of a person' (whatever that may mean).
    I'd certainly like to see some evidence to back up those claims.

    Without a shadow of a doubt alcohol is a more damaging drug bother to the individual and to society. Not many people will be able to argue otherwise. Saying all that. I prefer alcohol and haven't had an interest in cannabis since college.
    Yesterday is history
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  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,156 Skive's The Limit
    Whowhere wrote: »
    Maybe there hasn't been enough research done, but I thought it would be obvious that excessive consumption of something that has such a profound impact on your state of mind, will eventually lead to a negative consequence in some people.

    I've seen many people over the years at work who suffer from loss of concentration, paranoia, inability to articulate to, at least personally believe that their drug use has effected them in a bad way.

    I agree cannabis can have a negative effect on a person whilst it's in your system, in fact one of the reason I don't smoke it is that it makes me a little paranoid and lethargic. However my use heavy use when I was young resulted in no permanent log term effects, and there is no evidence I'm aware of that system cannabis causes any long term harm after a user stops smoking it.

    Alcohol is an infinitely more damaging drug. It's a big killer. Cannabis is not.
    Yesterday is history
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  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    Here's an article on this that you might find helpful to read Butterfly:

    http://www.livescience.com/42738-marijuana-vs-alcohol-health-effects.html

    Most interesting to me is the fact that our inability to really understand the long-term affect of weed relates to the fact it's illegal. If it were a legal drug like alcohol, then there would be justification for much more research into it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks for that Helen.

    It's clear to me that weed isn't nearly as riskless as many people seem to think and I feel the dangers of alcohol are almost overplayed but I guess that could be due to the lack of research into weed. Neither weed nor alcohol are safe but really it's down to the individual - we all know dangers and limits and ultimately it's down to ourselves to take control of that if we feel doing so is a possibility.

    I feel a lot of the time that people use the knowledge we have about the affects of alcohol to base their further judgements from that which could escalate if you see the damage it might be doing to someone else. I understand that but I also think that everyone should be in two minds about drinking or drug taking because I think there's always an underlying reason but so many people are unable to even believe that and it really pisses me off.

    All drugs can end up killing you - it's not just alcohol. It depends on the individuals, their limits, etc.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,156 Skive's The Limit
    Thanks for that Helen.

    It's clear to me that weed isn't nearly as riskless as many people seem to think and I feel the dangers of alcohol are almost overplayed

    I don't feel the dangers of alcohol are over played, else we wouldn't have the huge problem of irresponsible drinking that we do. The damage it does to society and the damage it can do to an individual are widely ignored.
    All drugs can end up killing you - it's not just alcohol. It depends on the individuals, their limits, etc.

    All drugs can be harmful if used irresponsibly I agree, this doesn't mean that we should treat all drugs in the same way though. It is far easier to abuse and do damage to yourself through the use of alcohol and cocaine for instance, than it is to harm yourself through smoking weed.

    Scientists recently took all the informational they have about the most widely used drugs in the uk and rated them by harm. The results may suprise you.

    1. Heroin
    2. Cocaine
    3. Barbituates
    4. Street methadone
    5. Alcohol
    6. Ketamine
    7. Benzodiazepines
    8. Amphetamine
    9. Tobacco
    10. Buprenorphine
    11. Cannabis
    12. Solvents
    13. 4-MTA
    14. LSD
    15. Methylphenidate
    16. Anabolic steroids
    17. GHB
    18. Ecstasy
    19. Alykl nitrites
    20. Khat
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why isn't tobacco higher? Doesn't it end up killing half of all smokers?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Grace wrote: »
    Why isn't tobacco higher? Doesn't it end up killing half of all smokers?

    Because it's rated by harm, not just deaths (that's part of their graphs). Their study explains how they're ranked, there's two lists, explained:
    Individual harm (such as dependence, mortality, and impairment of mental functioning) was considered under "harm to users," while "harm to others" (such as crime, environmental damage, and international damage) took into account the number and extent of others harmed by individual drug use. The two charts illustrate the study?s conclusions using a 100 point scale where 100 is the maximum harm and zero indicates no harm.

    I've smoked weed, I've drank alcohol, I'm not an idiot with either and I know my limits and how they react with my body. Weed doesn't agree with me that well compared to alcohol [had a few scary/paranoid experiences, but great to reflect on], so I seldomly smoke (or drink for that matter). Only when I'm in the right frame of mind for either. Moderation with everything.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,156 Skive's The Limit
    Whowhere wrote: »
    If as many people who used alcohol used heroin, heroin would kill the most.

    Not necessarily. Most of the problems associated with heroin are caused by it's illegality. If it were free and clean, and decriminalised, and safe places to use it were provided, I suspect that it wouldn't cause as many deaths as alcohol.
    Alcohol can cause great damage to you body's organs. Heroin doesn't do this.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    If it were based on deaths, you're right. Tobacco would be at the top, followed by alcohol then a massive gap before you get to heroin etc.

    The main reason is that both those substances are legal, millions of people use them. If as many people who used alcohol used heroin, heroin would kill the most.

    But the number of deaths is rather useless unless you include how many people use a certain drug, which meas there's x% of deaths, etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My dad does both, on a daily basis and it makes him worst, more paranoid, and a shit ''father'' to his 3 youngest.

    In all honesty, alcohol and drugs have different effects on people - not everyone will react the same way, but the way I've seen it, it doesn't calm my dad down, it makes him worst.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    I don't feel the dangers of alcohol are over played, else we wouldn't have the huge problem of irresponsible drinking that we do. The damage it does to society and the damage it can do to an individual are widely ignored.

    I don't think the damage is at all ignored, it's overplayed based on the damage alcohol can cause because people assume that what they've seen directly is what happens to absolutely everyone if they touch even a normal amount of the stuff.
    Skive wrote: »
    All drugs can be harmful if used irresponsibly I agree, this doesn't mean that we should treat all drugs in the same way though.

    Why not? I don't understand why people make such a fuss over alcohol. Yes I don't dismiss that drinking can be extremely damaging but again it's down to the individual - you can't blame the alcohol itself, it doesn't force itself down someone's throat, it doesn't force someone to become addicted.

    It's stupid to put drugs into an order - I think ultimately they are all very similar to one another.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,156 Skive's The Limit
    I don't think the damage is at all ignored, it's overplayed based on the damage alcohol can cause because people assume that what they've seen directly is what happens to absolutely everyone if they touch even a normal amount of the stuff.

    Well the statistics would suggest the damage caused by alcohol both to society and to the individual are widely ignored by many, and that due to this (willful?) ignorance the problems due to alcohol are on the increase.
    Alcohol misuse costs England approximately £21 billion per year in healthcare, crime and lost productivity costs. In 2011 there were 8748 deaths directly related to alcohol in UK.

    Have a look at this website for some pretty sobering facts about alcohol. Are you aware that alcohol causes this much damage?
    https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/help-and-advice/statistics-on-alcohol/

    Why not? I don't understand why people make such a fuss over alcohol. Yes I don't dismiss that drinking can be extremely damaging but again it's down to the individual - you can't blame the alcohol itself, it doesn't force itself down someone's throat, it doesn't force someone to become addicted.

    Of course not, and in a free democratic country an individual should be free to choose what they put in their body. However, a responsible society should make that choice an informed choice, presenting all the facts about a certain drugs, and highlighting the dangers.

    It's stupid to put drugs into an order - I think ultimately they are all very similar to one another.

    Why is it stupid? In what way are they similar to each other?

    There are many chemicals out there with some wide ranging effects and it's clear that some are more risky and cause more harm than others. There are very big difference between depressants, stimulants, and hallucinogens. For example alcohol being a depressant means it's effects on your body are completely different to the effects caused by amphetamine which is a stimulant drug. Not making a distinction when there clearly is one would be stupid.

    Lists also happen to be useful to highlight the hypocrisy of the current drug laws.
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    Tomorrow is a mystery
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Well the statistics would suggest the damage caused by alcohol both to society and to the individual are widely ignored by many, and that due to this (willful?) ignorance the problems due to alcohol are on the increase.

    It's not complete ignorance though - many people would die so much quicker without alcohol than they would with it. People are extremely dependant on it but like I keep saying, there will always be a reason for that.

    Some parents can't cope with the responsibility of their children so will turn to alcohol - would you rather that or these parents getting violent towards their children? Some people turn to alcohol to cope with depression - would you rather that or these people killing themselves a different way, a quicker way and a much more serious way? There are very many reasons.
    Skive wrote: »
    Are you aware that alcohol causes this much damage?

    So to answer this question - yes I certainly am aware that alcohol can cause an immense amount of damage but to me that's better than the alternatives.
    Skive wrote: »
    However, a responsible society should make that choice an informed choice, presenting all the facts about a certain drugs, and highlighting the dangers.

    Individuals can only be responsible for themselves and make the choice based on their own reasons (which no-one else can ever fully understand), but they must have a pretty big battle in their heads to even want to consider drugs. I'm almost certain that barely any people have a calming chat with themselves based on pros and cons with this.
    Skive wrote: »
    In what way are they similar to each other?

    They're all used for the same kind of reason, no matter what the drug is. It just so happens some are more damaging than others but that doesn't mean they're not much the same.

    Alcohol is illegal - many other drugs aren't. Before anyone bases judgement on individual people, it's worth remembering that it's the easiest to get when you need it.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,156 Skive's The Limit
    I don't really know where to start. I think your ideas around alcohol, are at best naive and at worst quite dangerous.

    Never have I come across psychiatrist advice that suggests self medication with recreational drugs is a good idea, and that certainly includes alcohol. In fact all advice and evidence I've seen, shows that alcohol exacerbates mental health issues. I don't know what information you have used to form this opinion but I thinks very much misguided, and would hope that you take a bit more time to actually research the harms alcohol can do to mental health, let alone your physical health.

    Given that alcohol is indicated in a huge amount of violent crime and domestic abuse, and that alcohol can increase the the likely-hood of aggression, I find it hard to believe that you think stressed out parents using alcohol to cope is a good idea, I find it that pretty shocking actually.

    There are huge differences between many types of drugs, whether they be medicinal or recreational, legal or illegal. To treat or view them as very similar I think is quite dangerous - and that's coming from somebody whose enjoyed trying large number of different drugs over the years.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    I find it hard to believe that you think stressed out parents using alcohol to cope is a good idea

    I did not say I think it's a good idea and I'm certain it's not something I'd encourage for a way to cope with parenting - I am trying to put emphasis on the fact that there will always be a reason as to why someone chooses to drink.

    I don't have direct experience with that particular scenario but I am trying to stress that it's a very real possibility and if someone turns to alcohol with the hope of feeling calmer and/or more able to cope with the responsibility of their children, without turning violent, then surely that can only be a good thing? Nobody can know the definite outcome of any decision they make and this is one of those examples, so if someone is choosing to drink with good intent then that shouldn't be a problem. It's not as though some people are choosing how alcohol effects them, the more violent drunks aren't choosing to become that way. It's a cycle that starts with very real, good intentions and it goes from there - you hold onto the hope that you started with.

    I'm not basing all of my personal opinions on much research, I am basing them on first-hand experience of alcohol, I am basing my experiences on the way my mind works when it comes to this drug and I don't care what anyone thinks. I am very much aware of the dangers of drinking but that's obviously not always going to come close to an individuals hopes and needs - it's wrong to judge people for that.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,156 Skive's The Limit
    I did not say I think it's a good idea and I'm certain it's not something I'd encourage for a way to cope with parenting - I am trying to put emphasis on the fact that there will always be a reason as to why someone chooses to drink.

    Most people drink to have a good time, not to solve their problems.
    I am trying to stress that it's a very real possibility and if someone turns to alcohol with the hope of feeling calmer and/or more able to cope with the responsibility of their children, without turning violent, then surely that can only be a good thing?

    But it's not a 'very real possibility'. Drinking alcohol to relax and have a good time is one thing, attempting to use it to prevent yourself from becoming violent is absurd.
    Alcohol and it's effects are well understood, and the overwhelming consensus is that using alcohol treat mental health issues is a very bad idea.

    I'm not basing all of my personal opinions on much research, I am basing them on first-hand experience of alcohol, I am basing my experiences on the way my mind works when it comes to this drug and I don't care what anyone thinks. I am very much aware of the dangers of drinking but that's obviously not always going to come close to an individuals hopes and needs - it's wrong to judge people for that.

    I'm trying my best to understand some of what you right but a lot of it comes of as nonsensical. From what I can gather you seem to believe self medication with alcohol for mental health issues is a good idea, but I think on a board like this where a lot of people come for help for mental health issues, that is possibly irresponsible. The overwhelming consensus with medical professionals, which can be back up by studies, suggests that you are wrong on this one unfortunately, and that alcohol makes mental health issue much worse.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Most people drink to have a good time, not to solve their problems.

    Yes that may be the case but a lot of people that become so reliant on alcohol tend to drink to solve their problems.
    Skive wrote: »
    But it's not a 'very real possibility'. Drinking alcohol to relax and have a good time is one thing, attempting to use it to prevent yourself from becoming violent is absurd.

    Well it is a very real possibility because that's sometimes the case and I don't at all agree that it's absurd.
    Skive wrote: »
    I'm trying my best to understand some of what you right but a lot of it comes of as nonsensical. From what I can gather you seem to believe self medication with alcohol for mental health issues is a good idea, but I think on a board like this where a lot of people come for help for mental health issues, that is possibly irresponsible. The overwhelming consensus with medical professionals, which can be back up by studies, suggests that you are wrong on this one unfortunately, and that alcohol makes mental health issue much worse.

    Not once have I specifically stated that it's a good idea - I'm saying alcohol is used with the hope that it can help people with whatever it is they're struggling with and I empathise with them so I'm not going to sit here and judge people based on whatever facts.

    I have also never stated that I think I'm right - I'm just sharing my own opinions and if you think I'm being irresponsible then so be it.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,156 Skive's The Limit
    Yes that may be the case but a lot of people that become so reliant on alcohol tend to drink to solve their problems.

    But alcohol can't and wont solve you problems, and anybody using it for that purpose almost universally end up worse off.

    Well it is a very real possibility because that's sometimes the case and I don't at all agree that it's absurd.

    Well medical professional and countless studies into the effect of alcohol on mental health, physical health, and violent crime would disagree. Alcohol is more likely to make you aggressive and violent.

    I'm saying alcohol is used with the hope that it can help people with whatever it is they're struggling with and I empathise with them so I'm not going to sit here and judge people based on whatever facts.

    I know why people use alcohol to self medicate - alcohol is a depressant and it suppresses cognitive function and anxiety and may make you feel better very breifly. It doesn't help in the long run though, and it exacerbates mental health issues and alcohol decadence will kill you.

    This is website where people come to get advice on important subjects like mental health and drug use, so that they can make informed decisions. I'm afraid that some of the statements you are making I can only describe as misinformation.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    But alcohol can't and wont solve you problems, and anybody using it for that purpose almost universally end up worse off.

    Which I am not and have not denied - that doesn't mean people don't try to solve their problems.
    Skive wrote: »
    It doesn't help in the long run though, and it exacerbates mental health issues and alcohol decadence will kill you.

    But something like this probably isn't important to an individual in a situation where they might feel like they absolutely need alcohol to get that brief escape for whatever reason. It's common for people to dismiss the long term affects when the short term, that specific moment, is all that seems evident to them.
    Skive wrote: »
    This is website where people come to get advice on important subjects like mental health and drug use, so that they can make informed decisions. I'm afraid that some of the statements you are making I can only describe as misinformation.

    I know exactly what this website is for and my aim isn't to cause any harm or purposely try to dismiss everything you're saying - I am simply stating how I feel about some (what I feel are) misconceptions of drugs, as are you, and I think I'm allowed my own opinion.
  • Annaarrr!!Annaarrr!! Noob Posts: 876
    Weed is a shit load safer than alcohol. I can't touch the stuff though because it gives me horrible anxiety attacks and prolonged anxiety after.

    I think this whole thing has become centred around an issue you have and is not so much a discussion anymore
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Annaarrr!! wrote: »
    I think this whole thing has become centred around an issue you have and is not so much a discussion anymore

    Not at all, I'm just focussing on the points that I'm passionate about, that aren't so clearly seen. If it's clear I'm that selfish then I'll drop out of this and you can all carry on chatting without me.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,156 Skive's The Limit
    Not at all, I'm just focussing on the points that I'm passionate about, that aren't so clearly seen.

    You seem to be passionate about proving that alcohol is useful to treat depression. It isn't.

    With regard to the original question about whether weed is more damaging than alcohol I think the answer pretty evident. No, it isn't more harmful than alcohol, but that's not to say it isn't without some risk. I have no agenda here. I don't smoke weed, but I certainly enjoy a drink.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Most people drink to have a good time, not to solve their problems.

    :yes:


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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Cannabis neither 'addles' you brain, makes you prone to violence, or makes you a 'shell of a person' (whatever that may mean).
    I'd certainly like to see some evidence to back up those claims.

    Without a shadow of a doubt alcohol is a more damaging drug bother to the individual and to society. Not many people will be able to argue otherwise. Saying all that. I prefer alcohol and haven't had an interest in cannabis since college.

    The problem with cannabis is how do you actually do the research? I know people who feel that cannabis has triggered psychosis with bipolar or schizophrenia, but how ethical would it be to feed somebody several joints a day, or have a control group of schizophrenic people to work with? No idea how info can come about... Plus people with mental illness are more likely to self-medicate with cannabis (as I did), so anecdotal evidence would be hard too. :S

    I think they're both potentially harmful, depending on loads of factors, such as lifestyle, environment and your neurological make up.

    I know for a fact I sure as hell I won't touch cannabis because I believe it has triggered depressive episodes with my bipolar before. I think at large though, alcohol is way more damaging to society.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I saw someone say that basically they feel smoking weed is far better than drinking alcohol because they'd rather be chilled out than annoying and they feel that ultimately weed is the better choice because alcohol could kill someone.

    That's like saying people who smoke weed are way better than people who drink alcohol and that's not something I agree with. I don't think it's at all about what someone does - the question is why does someone do what they do?

    I know I'd always, without a doubt, choose alcohol over anything else and that's a choice I'd make whether people like it or not. I don't think it's fair for anyone to make the assumption that drinking just causes you to become annoying and could ultimately kill you - it could be much more than it seems and although I don't know much about weed, I highly doubt it's the safest thing in the world.

    What do you guys think?

    I think everybody is different and we need to be responsible for our health and for how we behave. I think it's bullshit how some drugs are illegal when they're less dangerous than alcohol, but then a lot of the British public aren't able to handle their shit on booze, so would they handle their shit on other things?
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