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EU referendum

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Britain stays in European Union- cost & bureacracy from Brussels
Britain leaves: implications for our economy

PM Cameroon says after the next General election if his party wins the country will have a referendym on whether or not to remain in the EU

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The one thing I'm absolutely certain on about Europe is that the electorate isn't qualified to make decisions about it, and making decisions about it to pander to the people is bad for Britain as a whole.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The referendum has naff all to do with UK interests but everything to do with Cameron's own political position. He's being harassed by the skeptics in his party and by UKIP outside. He faces losing votes at the next General election.

    I don't know about you, but I haven't seen any increased clamour for the UK to leave the EU since the 80s. So why hold this now?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think we need to be in the EU...

    But another thing, the Lib Dems/Conservative party, are not going to win the next election.
    No really they're not.
    Lib Dems might aswell pack there bags and fuck off, because even UKIP has more seats.
    Conservative will lose to Labour.
    ^I bet £100 on that happening, and if it's wrong. You have my word i'll donate it to TheSite (or a charity of their choice).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The referendum has naff all to do with UK interests but everything to do with Cameron's own political position. He's being harassed by the skeptics in his party and by UKIP outside. He faces losing votes at the next General election.

    I don't know about you, but I haven't seen any increased clamour for the UK to leave the EU since the 80s. So why hold this now?

    I don't where you've been, but that clamour is pretty big (the UKIP is now polling over the Lib Dems at time). There's certainly a large percentage of people who'd want to leave (possibly a majority, possibly not) and an even bigger percentage who whilst not wanting to leave would certainly want a more eurosceptic position.

    Sure, it's a popular decision with the Conservative grassroots and the wider electorate, but given he's a politician in a democracy that seems a good reason for doing something rather than just relying on this weird belief that getting the support of voters is a bad thing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't where you've been, but that clamour is pretty big (the UKIP is now polling over the Lib Dems at time).

    To be fair. The LibDems have plummeted, not because of their EU stance but their role in Govt. UKIP are taking from the Tories if anywhere.
    Sure, it's a popular decision with the Conservative grassroots and the wider electorate, but given he's a politician in a democracy that seems a good reason for doing something rather than just relying on this weird belief that getting the support of voters is a bad thing.

    Not sure it's that popular in the wider electorate, but it certainly is in the Tory grassroots. I'm not sure either that the result will end the debate. Skeptics will still be skeptical, pro-EU will still be pro-EU. If we leave there will be arguments to go back in, if we stay there will be arguments to leave.

    This isn't driven by long term benefits, but by short term personal issues.

    For me, I'm an undecided on the actual issue. I can see both sides of the argument (whatever, I'm totally anti-euro), but of all the things discussed in circle I'm in, poverty, cuts, economy, triple dip, crime, immigration etc are much more likely to be topic than membership of the EU.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be fair. The LibDems have plummeted, not because of their EU stance but their role in Govt. UKIP are taking from the Tories if anywhere.

    That wasn't really my point; more that a party who's raison d'etre is to leave the EU is possibly the third most popular party in the UK (Also as an aside the polling evidence seems to suggest that while they do pull from the Tories, they also pull from the others as well, Labour voters are often as eurosceptic as Tory)
    Not sure it's that popular in the wider electorate, but it certainly is in the Tory grassroots. I'm not sure either that the result will end the debate. Skeptics will still be skeptical, pro-EU will still be pro-EU. If we leave there will be arguments to go back in, if we stay there will be arguments to leave.

    This isn't driven by long term benefits, but by short term personal issues.

    All politics is personal and if not now, when?

    Whilst I'm not against kicking cans down the road (I'm a senior Civil Servant - its what I do for a living ;)) , eventually you run out of road or the can disintegrates. The fact is the EU has been a festering sore for forty years (and worse since the eighties) and whilst it may not end it, it may well do because the referendum is only part of the equation. The other part is the renegotiation and if Cameron can get an EU that fits more with what the British want (and he may be pushing at an open door, it's a myth that everyone else are massive fans of the current structure) the boil may be lanced (or at least reduced to a pimple)
    For me, I'm an undecided on the actual issue. I can see both sides of the argument (whatever, I'm totally anti-euro), but of all the things discussed in circle I'm in, poverty, cuts, economy, triple dip, crime, immigration etc are much more likely to be topic than membership of the EU.

    I'd be happy to be in a looser EU (such as what we voted for), so it will depend on what was on offer.

    However, of your list straight of my head I can think of the following EU links

    cuts - the recent stabilisation Cameron refused to sign up to (and was criticised for by Miliband) committed its members to 0.5 % structural deficit which is much lower than the Government' is aiming for (at least in the short and medium term)

    economy, triple dip - whilst its not only the Euro crisis (for my mind the rising price of commodities especially oil was mainly to blame) the Europe and are links to it are not an insignificant factor

    immigration - whilst some of the reporting is at the wider flights of fantasy (I'm thinking of the Guardian and it's piece a few days about the UK advertising how shit we are to deter immigration) a large part of recent immigration is a direct result of the EU.

    It seems you may all be talking about Europe after all;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm being totally honest here, 95% of people who I have tried to get into a serious discussion with about Europe, have little or no genuine clue regarding anything they are talking about. The level of stats, figures and stories quoted from the likes of the Daily Express/Mail scares me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The one thing I'm absolutely certain on about Europe is that the electorate isn't qualified to make decisions about it, and making decisions about it to pander to the people is bad for Britain as a whole.

    thing is politicians aren't qualified to make such a mammoth decision either- MPs and ministers don't belong to a superior race nor have bigger brains- do you trust them not to ruin everyone's lives?
    The referendum has naff all to do with UK interests but everything to do with Cameron's own political position. He's being harassed by the skeptics in his party and by UKIP outside. He faces losing votes at the next General election.

    seconded- another power seeking political ploy

    G-Raffe wrote: »
    I'm being totally honest here, 95% of people who I have tried to get into a serious discussion with about Europe, have little or no genuine clue regarding anything they are talking about. The level of stats, figures and stories quoted from the likes of the Daily Express/Mail scares me.

    thing is Britain has been member of Common market/EU for 40 years - no one knows when they talk of us leaving. How a UK exit would affect us or the rest of Europe. It's pure speculation and no concrete knowing
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    KiwiFruit wrote: »
    thing is politicians aren't qualified to make such a mammoth decision either- MPs and ministers don't belong to a superior race nor have bigger brains- do you trust them not to ruin everyone's lives?
    They do, however, have the time to look at the issues, and access to a very competent civil service who do have the specialist knowledge to present an informed opinion of the various outcomes.

    Which puts them miles ahead of the daily mail reader. I stand by my statement.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They do, however, have the time to look at the issues, and access to a very competent civil service who do have the specialist knowledge to present an informed opinion of the various outcomes.
    true in that respect
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Eu

    Out of the frying pan, into the fire?

    Greece, Spain etc... All these fantastic people who are
    suffering at the hands of the politicians who should be representing
    them.

    it should be evident to people that this is the 'new world order' attemting to 'consolidate' all power into one location - Europe.

    Do people forget that we have been divided whilst the monarchs of each European country are all together and the same family?

    We are all of the same but have a different tongue and have been led to believe we are all different, better, stronger, more clever - BULL CRAP.

    A flag means nothing. Only to those despot monarchs.

    We must all work towards true independence away from
    devils who rule over us ( monarchs ).

    Do we forget what these ruling families have been upto over
    the 100's of dynasties?

    Please remember people - all the royal families of this world are of
    the same root. They are one big family due to interbreeding over
    the centuries. They own the lands. The mineral lands.
    They make the laws via the freemasons with they head and this
    applies to Europe, UK & USA - the USA was founded by freemasons.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Found this 2013 thread of mine

    Where do people stand on an EU referendum now? UKIP doing so well
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    UKIP aren't doing as well as the Green party, the media just likes to sensationalise UKIP because a lot of them say some stupid idiotic stuff and their leader is pretty potty too. Makes better watching than a party who makes sense and has policies that take everyone into account, not just the elite or the unions or racists.
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