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Does University really benefit you or is it just a con?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The students union are meant to there to represent the students but at some universities they are in the pocket of management, so it's pointless in having them really.

    The students who claim that students' unions are "in the pocket of management" tend to be the ones who have failed and want to blame everyone else for their failure. They tend to be the ones who aren't happy with their life choices and want to blame the University for everything.

    I believe there are too many Universities in the UK, and not all of them are worth paying to attend. But which University you go to, or whether you don't go to University at all, is a decision that you need to take personal responsibility for. Glossy PR videos and Open Day seminars are designed to show the University in the best light- they are promotional events, after all. There are plenty of independent places you can turn to to find out about the real reputation of a University.

    University now will cost you around £40,000 (for tuition and living costs), plus interest. That is a clear and open fact. If you decide to spend £40,000 after watching a glossy YouTube video and nothing else, then that is your choice and your mistake.
    Yes nina, some universities only have a drop out rate of 10-20% but others think they are doing well if 60% drop out by the end of the second year

    I am not aware of a single University in the country with a dropout rate of 60%. The best universities in the UK have a dropout rate of about 2%, the absolute worst only have a dropout rate of 15%-20%.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Seriously, why would anyone reply to comments with one word? Scary, I want to create a thread where you only comment once, can you restrict yourself to that? Artic Roll - If you are not going to bother watching the videos I have provided then please don't comment. That woman in the video above got a first class degree.

    Cat, you wanted a balanced view. I have no doubt there are people that get first or even second class degree that are happy and don't regret going to university. I think I have four friends like that, and one of them studied medicine. On the other side there are people that have had their lives ruined (for dozens of reasons) by university, and I am an example. My old employers don't really accept graduates, they have done but it's rare. If I had stayed there instead of going to university I would probably have been promoted and now be earning around 25K + benefits. Graduates these days don't earn that.

    I'm not saying this happens to all students but as the videos above show university does many different things to people including drinking excessive alcohol, drugs, STDs and many others. For me maybe if I had studied a different subject, stayed in halls and gone to a different university my experience would have been different. As I have friends that went to different universities to me and regret doing so I still have my doubts about this. I find it strange that whatuni will not record the drop out rates or students that regret studying a degree at all
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not saying this happens to all students but as the videos above show university does many different things to people including drinking excessive alcohol, drugs, STDs and many others.

    Lolololol. It's not like the 'university' forces people to get get together and locks away all the condoms.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Any particular reason why I should be limited to posting once rather than contributing to a discussion?

    Arctic clearly watched the videos, based on the comments he made. You're saying that university has ruined your friends lives - in what way? I struggle to understand how going to university can ruin a persons life. It's not like the university forces anything onto you - students are independent adults who can make their own free choices. You don't get STDs by going to university, you get an STD by having un protected sex. Same risk regardless of whether or not you're a student.

    You say graduates don't earn £25,000. Some graduates do, some don't. Much like some of those at your old employer would have been promoted and some wouldn't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also if university is ruining people's lives why didn't they just leave? Rather than do all 3 years and then claim it ruined their life. Think some people need to take some responsibility for themselves and their ability to make choices about their lives.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Artic Roll - If you are not going to bother watching the videos I have provided then please don't comment. That woman in the video above got a first class degree.

    Newsflash: you can get a first class degree and be a failure.
    there are people that have had their lives ruined (for dozens of reasons) by university, and I am an example.

    I think someone needs to put their Big Kid Shoes on and take some personal responsibility.
    I'm not saying this happens to all students but as the videos above show university does many different things to people including drinking excessive alcohol, drugs, STDs and many others.

    University makes you whap your leisure area out and have unprotected sex? Really? Are you quite sure about that?

    There was me thinking that students were adult human beings who could make their own decisions. But it turns out that the Vice Chancellor was personally out making everyone do MDMA.
    I find it strange that whatuni will not record the drop out rates or students that regret studying a degree at all

    WhatUni is a commercial website, what they put on their website is for them to decide.

    If a student wants to know about the course and their employment prospects on graduation, then Unistats will provide this information. Unistats is a Government initiative, not a commercial company, and universities have to have the Unistats information on each course page on their website.

    Drop Out rates at every university in the country are recorded by the Higher Education Statistics Agency and are widely available to anyone who wants to look for them. For reference, the average drop out rate in the UK is a smudge under 8%.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,185 Skive's The Limit
    Life is what you make it.
    Don't think that by going to Uni you're going to have an easier ride of it. You still have to work hard.

    I didn't bother with Uni because I wasn't entirely sure what I wanted to do, that and I wanted to start earning money straight away. The only thing that I regret is not experiencing a student life style, but then because I was earning more money than I would have been I got to do a fair but more without having a huge debt to pay off.
    I started off with some shit wages but I've worked hard and am pretty succesful now. I'm almost certainly better off than I would have been if I had went to Uni. I have a lot of friends who did decide to go to Uni, and have never used the qualifications they gained. I also have friends who have always know what they wanted to do, studied at Uni for it and have gone on to make it their career.

    Uni is a good thing to do, but only if your sure about what you want to study. I think too many people feel that Uni is a right of passage and something they must do.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just finished my first year at Uni. I've met people from around the world who'd I'd never have come across, talked with grand professors and now, entering my second year of a history degree in September, have opportunities I wouldn't find outside the University setting. For instance, I'm interesting in Consultancy. I've been able to walk into a student-run consultancy group, and we've just had all the big firms come in to talk to us about industry and sell their undergraduate schemes to us. But forget that, I've also had the chance to pursue sword-fighting, magic and other such interests. Most importantly for myself, I've learnt to be confident, and I don't think I'd have learnt the same by heading into a £5 an hour job post-college.

    That's also forgetting the fact that I've an interest in history (I do have some regrets, mainly that I didn't go for philosophy with history rather than straight history) and I've learnt more about the world. I'll have to follow the robotic life of wake-work-eat-sleep-repeat, but at least at present I'm able to learn more about the world and life in general.

    Price seems to be a big issue here for some reason. This year I personally got £8000ish to live off (£7000 maintenance loan and grant together, £1000 university bursary), with my accommodation costing £6000. I won't be "saddled with debt"; if I am lucky enough to get those oft-talked of but difficult to find "£21k p/a job" I'll be paying my loans off at about £40 a month.

    Please answer this though: if you don't earn £21k a year, you don't pay your student loans back. How can you say university is losing you money, when if you don't walk into a decent job you don't pay any back whilst you've just had 3 years covered. If you indeed don't walk into a 21k job, with a degree, then you'd have had no chance without one, and thus your degree has just improved you already despite you not having to pay for it.

    I've no concrete idea on what I want to do in life. But for these three years at university I don't have to worry about money, I don't have to worry about what I want to do, and I get time to both learn and develop myself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didn't go to uni either and don't think I ever will. I went to college but that wasn't for me either so found out that it was work I was longing for and been looking for jobs and now currently on a scholarship for 12 months so it shows u can still get somewhere in life then going to uni.
  • BubblesGoesBooBubblesGoesBoo Sunny ScotlandPosts: 3,589 Community Veteran
    £150,000 ? I'm never complaining about the scottish system ever again.
    ' So I put a bullet where I shouda put a helmet, and I crash my car cause I wanna get carried away, that's why I'm standing on the overpass screaming at myself 'hey, I wanna get better''  
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How on earth did it cost you £150,000?

    I'm doing a 5 year course (before fees went up) and I estimate it will cost me (and my parents) £52,500. And obviously a lot of that is student loan money which I don't have to pay back straight away - although because I don't qualify for any means tested grant my parents do have to support me.

    Breakdown per year:
    Around £3000 tuition fees
    Around £4000 accomodation (based on around £100 a week for 10 months and living with parents rent free for remaining time).
    Around £3500 for everything else based on a budget of £50 a week plus extras such as petrol, hair cuts, other travel.

    Edit: I see that you've include 'missed income' in your figures. Strange.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some Interesting reads

    http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jun/01/graduate-job-hunting
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2349983/Graduate-tells-struggle-job-number-shelf-stackers-degree-double-just-years.html


    If you do your research you will find that nearly half of all graduates are either on job seekers allowance or in a job on the minimum wage. Google 'number of graduates who don't use their degree Britain'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Approximately 87% of graduates in 2013 were in some form of work. They weren't all using their degrees, but that doesn't change that:
    Graduates were more likely to be employed...less likely to be searching for work...and less likely to be inactive
    Source: Labour Force Survey - Office for National Statistics


    Universities make public the number of graduates in employment. Just a thought, maybe you should have researched that before going. Or let me guess, you expected someone to spoon feed you that information too?
  • Annaarrr!!Annaarrr!! Noob Posts: 876
    I'm not sure how it could possibly have cost that much. Even after prices went up. I'm going onto a 6 year and it's 81,000 in loans and tuition fees. Also, you seem to be insisting that universities are these evil, corrupt places that force adults to make these life destroying decisions. You have some very odd ideas.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you are not going to bother reading my posts then I'm not explaining this again. I'm not saying university is a waste of time but it was for me and it has been for half the graduates out there. Most of the people I get into an argument with when I say studying a degree is a waste of time usually have something to lose by promoting this idea (lecturers), otherwise why would anyone be so angry about people persuading others not to study? Anyone that does not have anything to lose would just say 'I can understand that and then sit on the fence in their justifying. We are in a world where all anyone cares about is themselves. I tell people my previous jobs and obviously my family know my background, usually they say 'Why did you ever leave to go to university, you had a good job there'. People that I worked with are now managers for my old employers. They earn 25K p/a, never work weekends, are not subject to any targets, company car and other benefits. It is the only job I ever regret leaving so there will not be too many people in the same position as me. BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT WHETHER YOU GO TO UNIVERSITY, AND REMEMBER SOME UNIVERSITIES DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU OR YOUR FUTURE....THEY WANT YOUR MONEY
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Most of the people I get into an argument with when I say studying a degree is a waste of time usually have something to lose by promoting this idea (lecturers), otherwise why would anyone be so angry about people persuading others not to study? Anyone that does not have anything to lose would just say 'I can understand that and then sit on the fence in their justifying. We are in a world where all anyone cares about is themselves.

    As far as I know, no one on here is a lecturer, we are just able to offer a more balanced approached to life and aren't blinkered by negativity.

    Point for future reference: using capitals won't help to make your point any better. If anything, it achieves the opposite because it puts people off reading: no one wants to be cyber shouted at.
    at TheSite.org general netiquette such as not writing in block capitals applies, AS IT IS HARDER TO READ AND GIVES THE EFFECT OF SHOUTING), or when a poster is rude, abusive and arrogant
    from here
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you have evidence that university has been a waste for half of the graduates out there? Although, it depends how you define waste...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Please guys.....read my comments before you post your own comments.

    SeyUK I'm almost certain it's currently 16K, not 21K. You are adding interest to your loan. I would now be in a job that pays around 21-30K (with overtime) if I had not studied a degree. Your assumption that you are better off with a degree is an outdated one and no doubt you have been influenced by your peers that university is a good idea.

    I went to my local college yesterday to enrol my nephew on a course. I asked questions like 'Can I see the figures for how many people drop out and can I see the results from student satisfaction surveys or reviews that previous students have taken part in' She said 'We cannot give out that information'. Why the hell not...will it make you redundant? Some universities really wish that whatuni/youtube did not exist

    Cat...I can understand your justification but why would anyone behave like this???? All people are interested in is what benefits themselves!

    All colleges/universities care about is keeping unemployment down and tuition fees. If you enrol on a course you find that they are very keen to keep you on the course. That is because they do not hit their targets and get the tuition fees if students drop out. 10 yrs ago they never cared if people dropped out because they got their targets when students started the course, not whether they complete it!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    SeyUK I'm almost certain it's currently 16K, not 21K. You are adding interest to your loan. I would now be in a job that pays around 21-30K (with overtime) if I had not studied a degree. Your assumption that you are better off with a degree is an outdated one and no doubt you have been influenced by your peers that university is a good idea.

    You keep banging on about this mythical job. If you would have had such an amazing job without going to University, why don't you try re-applying for it and let us all know how you get on?

    Let me guess, you going to University means you can't apply for a job.

    Tuition and maintenance loans together would typically come to around £15,000 per year, so around about £45,000 for a three-year degree. Most graduates will probably never repay all of it, as the debt is "written off" after 30 years. These are facts, and people should not spend £45,000 lightly.
    That is because they do not hit their targets and get the tuition fees if students drop out. 10 yrs ago they never cared if people dropped out because they got their targets when students started the course, not whether they complete it!!

    Universities have always been paid based on continual attendance, not on whether someone starts the course. If a student drops out, the university loses the funding for that student. It doesn't matter whether the student is paying the full cost of tuition, as they are now, or whether HEFCE paid some of the cost through grants, as they used to. A student dropping out means no cash.

    I have told you where to find dropout rates for University, why don't you try doing your own research instead of blaming everyone else for your own ineptitude?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi guys,

    I don't want this to be an argument please.

    It is what it is. I suspect many people reading the thread are not as angry and worked up about it as you appear to be.
    Going to university cost me over £150,000 and my degree will probably never benefit me. If I had not studied a degree I would now be in a job that pays 21K and have no debts. :banghead:

    I'm not sure how there's any possible way that you can know what your circumstances would have been had you chosen to take an entirely different path in life. You *might* be in a job or you might not. The job you might be in might be well paid, or not.
    As someone that knows accountants and electricians that cannot get a job in the UK I find it difficult to believe that university is worth the effort.

    I'm not really sure how these things relate to each other? Accountants don't necessarily require degrees and nor do sparkies and since you're saying they might not have jobs anyway, how is that different to going to uni and not having a job?
    When at college (2 years prior to recession) everyone kept telling me that I would regret not going to university. I am convinced it was just a ploy just to keep themselves in a job.

    That's a fairly cynical outlook. They were probably expecting that you might enjoy the experience of being at university.
    Please let me know your experiences

    I went to uni, and had a reasonable time whilst I was there. It was good to get out of my home town. It was good to meet different people. I'd say, overall, the degree was probably less useful than some of the people I met whilst doing it, but it's hard to say how my life would have gone otherwise, and every degree is different.

    why is there people that are unemployed that graduated from the top universities?

    For any number of reasons. Not enough jobs in their target area?
    Even today employees at colleges are very keen for you to go to university and never tell you that you will find it very difficult to get a job when you leave. There are a few things that are said behind closed doors I think

    I'm fairly sure that every careers person who I ever spoke to was fairly clear that going to university is not a free pass into any job. Not that I ever particularly relied upon a careers advisor to make my decisions for me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    SeyUK I'm almost certain it's currently 16K, not 21K.

    From https://www.gov.uk/student-finance/repayments
    Your repayments are linked to your income. You only make repayments when your income is over £21,000 a year. Repayments are put on hold if your income drops below £21,000.
  • Starry nightStarry night Incredible Poster Posts: 674
    I have currently just finished my first year of university, and regardless of the money, I would still make the same decision from the year so far. I am basing this on how much I have enjoyed myself, learnt to be more independent (which is invaluable to me) and learnt some hard life lessons that will serve me far longer than the thousands of pounds ever would have. I would be less employable as a person before I went to uni, than after, just based on my personality, perspective and skill set, rather than a degree. Coincidentally, one of the things you have to try and learn is to take responsibility for your own life and direction, even though it's scary. It's sad you're having such a tough time, but putting the blame on anything else rather than yourself is not helping you grow as person, or just get out of the situation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ninaballet, it depends on what type of student loan you have.

    For students with a pre-2012 loan (but not a pre-1998 "mortgage style loan"), repayments start when you're earning over about £16,500. For students with a post-2012 loan, repayments start when you're earning over about £21,000.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I went to University, I thought I would give it a try. I lasted a year and decided it wasn't for me, purely because of personal circumstance. I think I have done good in my life since, though now I've recently been made redundant from what I thought was a career for life, I wish I had stayed on because a degree could have been an added bonus.

    It's not necessarily for everyone, though I did decide to give it a shot and I never regret doing that.
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