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Disappointment

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
So I don't know if any of you guys are from northern ireland, but today our local government in Stormont had a debate today about the Equal Marriage proposition-ie. gay marriage. It was proposed by Steven Agnew of the Green Party that gay couples would have the same provisions of marriage as straight couples, in that they would be allowed a civil or religious ceremony as they so chose, although churches or religious institutions would not be forced into performing a gay marriage. They would also have the same rights as heterosexual couples, for instance over here gay couples can't adopt children, but under the proposed legislation that wouldn't happen.
But guess what? It wasn't passed. There were some very good, compelling points made in favour of it by numerous parties, but of course half of them acted like the mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers that MLAs are renowned for being. One even basically suggested that homosexuality shouldn't have been legalised....
For me, this was just a great disappointment. I feel like we're being left behind with the rest of the UK, with scotland england and wales looking down at us for some people's sheer closed-mindedness. Northern Ireland has the highest suicide in the UK, and a high proportion of those are found to be of someone in the LGBTQ community. That's the most worrying thing.
And it can't just be me who feels this way. Is there really anyone out there who so strongly opposes this? It's just I've never met anyone who would argue about something that barely would affect them.
But I suppose all we can hope for is that things change, and soon.

Comments

  • ReenaReena Fanatical Poster Posts: 1,375 The Mix Regular
    That is terrible.
    I know a gay couple who have a child and have another one on the way. My uncle is also gay.
    How can they say homosexuality shouldn't have been legalized? I want to punch people like that. Being forced to be someone you're not. Everyone should feel safe and comfortable being who they are around the rest of the world, and not have to struggle for the same rights as everyone else.
    I think it's awful that there are still people like that. :banghead:
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    interesting topic, going to move it over to P&D. :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And then it dies......


    No, seriously, it's disgusting. Who people want to be with, or be in love with is no business of the state. Gay people in relationships should have the same legal protections as those of us who are straight.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Irony is the Protestant church campaigning against same sex marriage on the ground that it changes the definition of marriage.

    I don't believe in marriage for myself (unless there's citizenship involved)... But I don't see why if one group of people are allowed it, another shouldn't be... It's repressive to the gaybours and shite for the religious organisations who wanna perform said ritual.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, marriage is historically a religious term which is about a man and a womans relationship being recognised by God, and the governments role in marriage is that marriages generally tend to produce children, and the government has a vested interest in the welfare of those children for obvious reasons (hence married couples get tax cuts and other financial incentives in some countries), not to mention the family unit is seen as the corner stone of society.

    There's also the argument of, if gay/lesbians are allowed to marry, then why not move to goal posts and allow polygamy? It's in some religious beliefs and personal beliefs that a person should be allowed to marry more than one wife/husband if they're all cool with it. Should that be legal too?

    Just to make it clear I'm not against gay marriage (I have no opinion, honestly), but I can understand why some people don't agree with it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Threxy wrote: »
    Well, marriage is historically a religious term which is about a man and a womans relationship being recognised by God, and the governments role in marriage is that marriages generally tend to produce children, and the government has a vested interest in the welfare of those children for obvious reasons (hence married couples get tax cuts and other financial incentives in some countries), not to mention the family unit is seen as the corner stone of society.

    There's also the argument of, if gay/lesbians are allowed to marry, then why not move to goal posts and allow polygamy? It's in some religious beliefs and personal beliefs that a person should be allowed to marry more than one wife/husband if they're all cool with it. Should that be legal too?

    Just to make it clear I'm not against gay marriage (I have no opinion, honestly), but I can understand why some people don't agree with it.

    Is marriage an historically religious thing? I always thought of it more as a society thing, which happens to span several religions, suggesting that whilst religion might appear to have a monopoly on marriage as a whole, no one religion seems to.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Threxy wrote: »
    There's also the argument of, if gay/lesbians are allowed to marry, then why not move to goal posts and allow polygamy? It's in some religious beliefs and personal beliefs that a person should be allowed to marry more than one wife/husband if they're all cool with it. Should that be legal too?

    Yes.

    If everyone is ok with the situation, I don't see how this is any kind of argument.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've heard that if the Gays get married it's inevitable I'll be able to marry dead people and inanimate objects soon enough. Is this true? I've a broken toaster at home that's defo giving me the eye.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    Is marriage an historically religious thing? I always thought of it more as a society thing, which happens to span several religions, suggesting that whilst religion might appear to have a monopoly on marriage as a whole, no one religion seems to.

    Plenty of religions have marriage, but most religions more or less believe the same thing, that it's a union between a man and a woman to procreate, etc etc. The Mormons and (I believe..) some Islamic sects also permit polygamy more or less so a man can procreate with more than one woman.
    Yes.

    If everyone is ok with the situation, I don't see how this is any kind of argument.

    I don't disagree, but the point is the government does, and so do a lot of people (including proponents of gay marriage), people believe that if you move the goal posts, then what next? The whole slippery slope argument and I think this is one of the reasons why some conservative U.S. politicians wanted to Constitutionally define "Marriage" as being a union between being one man and one woman, of course many of the other reasons were mere bigotry and homophobia.
    I've heard that if the Gays get married it's inevitable I'll be able to marry dead people and inanimate objects soon enough. Is this true? I've a broken toaster at home that's defo giving me the eye.

    That is going too far of course, but what is your stance on Incest? Do you believe you should also be allowed to bed your brother/sister as long as everyone is a consenting adult and don't plan to have children? Perhaps marry him/her too.

    Before you retort me with saying how ridiculous it is, bear in mind people thought homosexuality was ridiculous and sickening only a couple of decades ago. It was even in the DSM as a mental disorder until the 1970s and they aired PSAs like this in the USA and UK in the 1950s and 60s sometimes:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqIIeGmhL2Q
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Threxy wrote: »
    I don't disagree, but the point is the government does, and so do a lot of people (including proponents of gay marriage), people believe that if you move the goal posts, then what next? The whole slippery slope argument and I think this is one of the reasons why some conservative U.S. politicians wanted to Constitutionally define "Marriage" as being a union between being one man and one woman, of course many of the other reasons were mere bigotry and homophobia.

    The Slippery Slope argument is usually a fallback of the intellectually dishonest and lazy who can't present a cogent argument against whatever's currently under discussion, so instead try to indicate that further down the road some really heinous shit is waiting. The trick is to ask them to show the logical progression between one and the other. And to demonstrate how one is necessary and sufficient for the other to come about.
    Threxy wrote: »
    That is going too far of course, but what is your stance on Incest? Do you believe you should also be allowed to bed your brother/sister as long as everyone is a consenting adult and don't plan to have children? Perhaps marry him/her too.

    Let them have at it. Why should my icky feelings on a subject dictate what you can and can't do?
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